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	<title>Comments on: Will Health-Care Innovation Survive Obamacare?</title>
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	<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/07/13/will-health-care-innovation-survive-obamacare/</link>
	<description>The Sweet Release of Reason</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 20:28:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: MartinBradley</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/07/13/will-health-care-innovation-survive-obamacare/#comment-26092</link>
		<dc:creator>MartinBradley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 03:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3552#comment-26092</guid>
		<description>I hope that the &quot;Obamacare&quot; will not have a negative effect on the health care innovations. On the contrary, maybe he is going to invest even more in research. I suffer from a &lt;a rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;sinus infection&lt;/a&gt; for which there is no cure yet but I sure do hope medicine will come up with a permanent cure for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope that the &#8220;Obamacare&#8221; will not have a negative effect on the health care innovations. On the contrary, maybe he is going to invest even more in research. I suffer from a <a rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">sinus infection</a> for which there is no cure yet but I sure do hope medicine will come up with a permanent cure for it.</p>
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		<title>By: MartinBradley</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/07/13/will-health-care-innovation-survive-obamacare/#comment-26091</link>
		<dc:creator>MartinBradley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3552#comment-26091</guid>
		<description>I hope that the &quot;Obamacare&quot; will not have a negative effect on the health care innovations. On the contrary, maybe he is going to invest even more in research. I suffer from a &lt;a rel=&quot;follow&quot; href=&quot;http://www.sinusinfectionproblems.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;sinus infection&lt;/a&gt; for which there is no cure yet but I sure do hope medicine will come up with a permanent cure for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope that the &#8220;Obamacare&#8221; will not have a negative effect on the health care innovations. On the contrary, maybe he is going to invest even more in research. I suffer from a <a rel="follow" href="http://www.sinusinfectionproblems.com/" rel="nofollow">sinus infection</a> for which there is no cure yet but I sure do hope medicine will come up with a permanent cure for it.</p>
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		<title>By: huang</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/07/13/will-health-care-innovation-survive-obamacare/#comment-26090</link>
		<dc:creator>huang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 04:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3552#comment-26090</guid>
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		<title>By: arshield</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/07/13/will-health-care-innovation-survive-obamacare/#comment-26089</link>
		<dc:creator>arshield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 08:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3552#comment-26089</guid>
		<description>The problem isn&#039;t the innovation it is the unpredictability.  If you never know what your insurance will and will not pay for then there is not a free market system.  A free market system says that you can go into the market and figure out what is the best insurance for you.  If your insurer randomly (based on your understanding) agrees to pay for one thing, but won&#039;t pay for another that is not a free market system.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Market economies must have open and understandable pricing in order to work.  Heath care is not open or understandable and therefore it is not a real market system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem isn&#39;t the innovation it is the unpredictability.  If you never know what your insurance will and will not pay for then there is not a free market system.  A free market system says that you can go into the market and figure out what is the best insurance for you.  If your insurer randomly (based on your understanding) agrees to pay for one thing, but won&#39;t pay for another that is not a free market system.  </p>
<p>Market economies must have open and understandable pricing in order to work.  Heath care is not open or understandable and therefore it is not a real market system.</p>
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		<title>By: anonymous</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/07/13/will-health-care-innovation-survive-obamacare/#comment-26088</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3552#comment-26088</guid>
		<description>Basic care improves because of the &quot;expensive stuff&quot;. Innovation by definition means cheaper and better. The point of this article is that in a monolithic government system, where everything must be distributed equally, new surgical techniques that enable safe c-sections would have been &quot;expensive stuff&quot;, and would never have made it. Technology is by its nature deflationary. New stuff is expensive, but becomes cheaper over time. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Even in this case, your friend may have had to pay a lot of money for her C-Section, but it was much cheaper as a percentage of her wage than it would have been 50 years earlier for the same level of care, though in reality, the level of care she received now was probably not even available to the richest 50 years ago.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Think air conditioners in cars. They were once a luxury, but are now commonplace. If in the 50&#039;s we had demanded that everyone be provided a vehicle from a single payer system, it would have been impossible for air-conditioners to make the cut. We simply could not have afforded them for everyone at the time. The production costs of air conditioners would have stayed the same as manufacturing processes could not have been refined with experience.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This story plays out over and over again in market economies. Here is a comparison of the Sears catalog that shows an 80 percent reduction in cost (per hours worked) for common household items. &lt;a href=&quot;http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2009/03/miracle-of-market.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2009/03/miracle-of-...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That being said, I agree that liability problems stifle innovation, and that we should agree on a level of basic care that is made available to those least able to pay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Basic care improves because of the &#8220;expensive stuff&#8221;. Innovation by definition means cheaper and better. The point of this article is that in a monolithic government system, where everything must be distributed equally, new surgical techniques that enable safe c-sections would have been &#8220;expensive stuff&#8221;, and would never have made it. Technology is by its nature deflationary. New stuff is expensive, but becomes cheaper over time. </p>
<p>Even in this case, your friend may have had to pay a lot of money for her C-Section, but it was much cheaper as a percentage of her wage than it would have been 50 years earlier for the same level of care, though in reality, the level of care she received now was probably not even available to the richest 50 years ago.</p>
<p>Think air conditioners in cars. They were once a luxury, but are now commonplace. If in the 50&#39;s we had demanded that everyone be provided a vehicle from a single payer system, it would have been impossible for air-conditioners to make the cut. We simply could not have afforded them for everyone at the time. The production costs of air conditioners would have stayed the same as manufacturing processes could not have been refined with experience.</p>
<p>This story plays out over and over again in market economies. Here is a comparison of the Sears catalog that shows an 80 percent reduction in cost (per hours worked) for common household items. <a href="http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2009/03/miracle-of-market.html" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2009/03/miracle-of-" rel="nofollow">http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2009/03/miracle-of-</a>&#8230;</p>
<p>That being said, I agree that liability problems stifle innovation, and that we should agree on a level of basic care that is made available to those least able to pay.</p>
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		<title>By: Societal Blind Spots As&#8230;. Will Health-Care Innovation Survive Obamacare?&#8230;. &#124; Total Info</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/07/13/will-health-care-innovation-survive-obamacare/#comment-26087</link>
		<dc:creator>Societal Blind Spots As&#8230;. Will Health-Care Innovation Survive Obamacare?&#8230;. &#124; Total Info</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 03:12:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3552#comment-26087</guid>
		<description>[...] I have the sense that many defenders of an even-more-fully-government-run health care system have a hard time taking this question seriously. But they should. It&#8217;s just a fact that much of the world&#8217;s medical innovation comes from the U.S. This goes a good way toward explaining with why survival rates for many potentially mortal health problems are highest in the U.S., and also partly explains why U.S. costs are so high. Indeed, that a certain strata of Americans spend so much, often on stuff that makes no difference, also partly explains the high U.S. level of innovation. Profligate U.S. spending on state-of-the-art treatments acts as a subsidy to the health care systems of oRead more at http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/07/13/will-health-care-innovation-survive-obamacare/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I have the sense that many defenders of an even-more-fully-government-run health care system have a hard time taking this question seriously. But they should. It&#8217;s just a fact that much of the world&#8217;s medical innovation comes from the U.S. This goes a good way toward explaining with why survival rates for many potentially mortal health problems are highest in the U.S., and also partly explains why U.S. costs are so high. Indeed, that a certain strata of Americans spend so much, often on stuff that makes no difference, also partly explains the high U.S. level of innovation. Profligate U.S. spending on state-of-the-art treatments acts as a subsidy to the health care systems of oRead more at <a href="http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/07/13/will-health-care-innovation-survive-obamacare/" rel="nofollow">http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/07/13/will-health-care-innovation-survive-obamacare/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Singer on Health Care Rationing &#171; Young Economics.</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/07/13/will-health-care-innovation-survive-obamacare/#comment-26086</link>
		<dc:creator>Singer on Health Care Rationing &#171; Young Economics.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3552#comment-26086</guid>
		<description>[...] health care, Will Wilkinson asks whether socialized health care would slow medical innovation in the USA.  As an undergraduate, I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] health care, Will Wilkinson asks whether socialized health care would slow medical innovation in the USA.  As an undergraduate, I [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Right is wrong to attack Obamas health plan. - Page 2</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/07/13/will-health-care-innovation-survive-obamacare/#comment-26084</link>
		<dc:creator>Right is wrong to attack Obamas health plan. - Page 2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3552#comment-26084</guid>
		<description>[...]  Here&#039;s a good article on how those &#039;proven&#039; national healthcare systems are made possible:  Will Health-Care Innovation Survive Obamacare?    At the present rate of increase, US healthcare costs will go from 18% to 28 percent in 2030. If [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  Here&#8217;s a good article on how those &#8216;proven&#8217; national healthcare systems are made possible:  Will Health-Care Innovation Survive Obamacare?    At the present rate of increase, US healthcare costs will go from 18% to 28 percent in 2030. If [...]</p>
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		<title>By: uknowbetter</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/07/13/will-health-care-innovation-survive-obamacare/#comment-26085</link>
		<dc:creator>uknowbetter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3552#comment-26085</guid>
		<description>What a joke!  You want your free lunch and you want someone else to pay for it.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There is a word for people like you: despicable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a joke!  You want your free lunch and you want someone else to pay for it.</p>
<p>There is a word for people like you: despicable.</p>
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		<title>By: Right is wrong to attack Obamas health plan.</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/07/13/will-health-care-innovation-survive-obamacare/#comment-26082</link>
		<dc:creator>Right is wrong to attack Obamas health plan.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 04:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3552#comment-26082</guid>
		<description>[...]  Here&#039;s a good article on how those &#039;proven&#039; national healthcare systems are made possible:  Will Health-Care Innovation Survive Obamacare?   [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  Here&#8217;s a good article on how those &#8216;proven&#8217; national healthcare systems are made possible:  Will Health-Care Innovation Survive Obamacare?   [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/07/13/will-health-care-innovation-survive-obamacare/#comment-26083</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 02:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3552#comment-26083</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m talking 12 research groups of senior people each with multi-million dollar budgets with a &quot;bench to beside&quot; commercialization program added, not at inception, but to mature programs and three years later, nothing in the pipeline.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m talking 12 research groups of senior people each with multi-million dollar budgets with a &#8220;bench to beside&#8221; commercialization program added, not at inception, but to mature programs and three years later, nothing in the pipeline.</p>
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		<title>By: bookscout</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/07/13/will-health-care-innovation-survive-obamacare/#comment-26081</link>
		<dc:creator>bookscout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3552#comment-26081</guid>
		<description>Let me spell this out.  Productizing is the *least* innovative part of a medical discovery. The last lab I worked in does Alheimer&#039;s research and their first paper is on it is about to come out - three and a half years after beginning the work.  This has nothing to do with products, but goes to the structure of Alzheimer&#039;s amyloid plaques.  Getting a medically utilizable product from this is not likely at all, but down the line someone will benefit from knowing the structure of these plaques.  The innovation is in using an old structural determination technique in a novel way and developing all the lab methods from scratch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me spell this out.  Productizing is the *least* innovative part of a medical discovery. The last lab I worked in does Alheimer&#39;s research and their first paper is on it is about to come out &#8211; three and a half years after beginning the work.  This has nothing to do with products, but goes to the structure of Alzheimer&#39;s amyloid plaques.  Getting a medically utilizable product from this is not likely at all, but down the line someone will benefit from knowing the structure of these plaques.  The innovation is in using an old structural determination technique in a novel way and developing all the lab methods from scratch.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/07/13/will-health-care-innovation-survive-obamacare/#comment-26080</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3552#comment-26080</guid>
		<description>I appreciate your consternation, bookscout. The interview was personal. The news article on the shortcomings of medical research was online just in the last few days and was from a decent source (nytimes?) I certainly would&#039;ve bookmarked it if I&#039;d expected this discussion to ensue.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m late to the medical side of things. Earlier I worked with PhDs in a wide variety of fields, from metallurgy to electrical engineering to polymer chemistry to applied physics and so on. They all had a mentality of productizing discoveries. I found that spirit some in the medical world at places like Stanford Hospital, but for the most part I instead find antagonism to commercialization.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The &quot;bench to bedside&quot; program was not to mint PhDs. Instead, it was senior researchers in Alzheimer&#039;s, in genetics, in cancer, in eye research, a variety of medical fields. Nothing in the pipeline there after 3 years is telling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate your consternation, bookscout. The interview was personal. The news article on the shortcomings of medical research was online just in the last few days and was from a decent source (nytimes?) I certainly would&#39;ve bookmarked it if I&#39;d expected this discussion to ensue.</p>
<p>I&#39;m late to the medical side of things. Earlier I worked with PhDs in a wide variety of fields, from metallurgy to electrical engineering to polymer chemistry to applied physics and so on. They all had a mentality of productizing discoveries. I found that spirit some in the medical world at places like Stanford Hospital, but for the most part I instead find antagonism to commercialization.</p>
<p>The &#8220;bench to bedside&#8221; program was not to mint PhDs. Instead, it was senior researchers in Alzheimer&#39;s, in genetics, in cancer, in eye research, a variety of medical fields. Nothing in the pipeline there after 3 years is telling.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve M.</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/07/13/will-health-care-innovation-survive-obamacare/#comment-26079</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:45:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3552#comment-26079</guid>
		<description>Well, I don&#039;t think these sorts of international subsidies are always unjustified. And I&#039;m not sure where I come out on the specific questions at issue here. But I&#039;ve always thought that the &quot;the current U.S. system funds medical R&amp;D&quot; claim was one of the most compelling arguments against major health care reform. But people who make this claim -- at least the people that I read -- are always really vague about the details of how the subsidy is supposed to work, why R&amp;D would go away if the U.S. shifted to a (more?) public system (at least in the absence of major reform in Europe, &amp;c.), and, if the subsidy really exists, why it&#039;s okay to ask U.S. consumers to pay it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I don&#39;t think these sorts of international subsidies are always unjustified. And I&#39;m not sure where I come out on the specific questions at issue here. But I&#39;ve always thought that the &#8220;the current U.S. system funds medical R&#038;D&#8221; claim was one of the most compelling arguments against major health care reform. But people who make this claim &#8212; at least the people that I read &#8212; are always really vague about the details of how the subsidy is supposed to work, why R&#038;D would go away if the U.S. shifted to a (more?) public system (at least in the absence of major reform in Europe, &#038;c.), and, if the subsidy really exists, why it&#39;s okay to ask U.S. consumers to pay it.</p>
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		<title>By: bookscout</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/07/13/will-health-care-innovation-survive-obamacare/#comment-26078</link>
		<dc:creator>bookscout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:57:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3552#comment-26078</guid>
		<description>I also wish you could cite a source. Feel free to link your interview.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;PhDs in the sciences are granted for an original intellectual contribution to science (as slight as this contribution admittedly may be).  They are, by definition, innovative - why a lab that produces successful PhDs instead of products is proof that innovation is in peril eludes me.  Given that a typical PhD takes 4-6 years, that nothing was in the pipeline after thre years is hardly surprising. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My argument is pretty straight forward.  The heavy lifting of scientific discovery is done by publicly funded university researchers.  Corporations take these insights and monetize them.  COX-2 inhibitors are a good example of corporations gravy training on actual research.  Researcher discovers an important receptor site, corporation cyclesrapidly through hundreds of chemical analog candidates to fit in the site. Combinatorial chemistry and drug screening is hardly innovative in a corporate setting.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As for the ENT, his innovation was funded by an NIH grant, thus proving my point.  Scientists are currently in an extremely competitive market seeking funds for medical research.  If anything, the constant spinning of their research as medically important encourages scientists to overpromise, deceive, and play it safe.  Will is absolutely right that self interest drives innovation - but it&#039;s publicly funded.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Charlie, can you provide a single counter factual where a corporation created a medically important (i.e. - reduces mortality) drug or device without using the intellectual work product of a university scientist?  I&#039;m talking a soup to nuts innovation from the private sector.  Other commentors are welcome to chime in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also wish you could cite a source. Feel free to link your interview.</p>
<p>PhDs in the sciences are granted for an original intellectual contribution to science (as slight as this contribution admittedly may be).  They are, by definition, innovative &#8211; why a lab that produces successful PhDs instead of products is proof that innovation is in peril eludes me.  Given that a typical PhD takes 4-6 years, that nothing was in the pipeline after thre years is hardly surprising. </p>
<p>My argument is pretty straight forward.  The heavy lifting of scientific discovery is done by publicly funded university researchers.  Corporations take these insights and monetize them.  COX-2 inhibitors are a good example of corporations gravy training on actual research.  Researcher discovers an important receptor site, corporation cyclesrapidly through hundreds of chemical analog candidates to fit in the site. Combinatorial chemistry and drug screening is hardly innovative in a corporate setting.</p>
<p>As for the ENT, his innovation was funded by an NIH grant, thus proving my point.  Scientists are currently in an extremely competitive market seeking funds for medical research.  If anything, the constant spinning of their research as medically important encourages scientists to overpromise, deceive, and play it safe.  Will is absolutely right that self interest drives innovation &#8211; but it&#39;s publicly funded.</p>
<p>Charlie, can you provide a single counter factual where a corporation created a medically important (i.e. &#8211; reduces mortality) drug or device without using the intellectual work product of a university scientist?  I&#39;m talking a soup to nuts innovation from the private sector.  Other commentors are welcome to chime in.</p>
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