Comments on: Further Meditations on the Objective Meaning of Green Twitter Avatars

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By: R. Kevin Hill

R. Kevin Hill — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:24:02 +0000

The Green Revolution makes war far less likely, because now we know that plenty of Iranians (millions at least) dislike their government as much as the neocons do, and people here are (now, post-Iraq especially) aware of the fact that wars of liberation do great harm to the liberated and legitimize the governments that oppressed them. No one is naive enough to believe any more that a war of liberation is welcomed by its alleged beneficiaries, and the only other way to motivate people to support war with Iran is to demonize the whole country as being all of a piece, which is now impossible. In my book that's good. Yours too, I suspect.

By: WJ

WJ — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:36:33 +0000

My two cents is my agreement with “uknowbetter”. It's easy to carp from the sidelines and with 20-20 hindsight.

By: Kent Guida

Kent Guida — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:52:05 +0000

Will, that's one bad case of Bush Derangement Syndrome if you won't back the people against the regime in Iran because it might somehow reflect well on Bush. That's just sad.

By: Patri Friedman

Patri Friedman — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:23:20 +0000

Join The Seasteading Institute. Duh . Or at least The Free State Project.

The depressing truth about politics is that the best move is usually not to play. When in doubt, focus on your own life and happiness. If you want to help and don't know how to do so directly, making money and donating it to whatever you think is the most efficient way of promoting freedom is always a good idea.

By: Patri Friedman

Patri Friedman — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:18:17 +0000

I disagree. There are short-term and long-term problems with naive activism. In the short-term, their act may lead them to feel they have “done their duty”, and to not do things that are more effective. But more importantly, this sort of response just reinforces the behavior of naively channeling one's desire to make the world better into superficial and ineffective strategies. And that is a powerful enemy of achieving real change through strategies that focus on results, not just easy ways to feel good.

By: authorityseo

authorityseo — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 03:59:15 +0000

Because of the entire post and everyone's comments and I was pretty much
just joking, I didn't know any story or though anything about turning my
Twitter photo green until this post

By: Liz

Liz — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 03:28:05 +0000

'Cause of my comment?

By: c3

c3 — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:59:06 +0000

Nothing to see her folks, now just move on, c'mon now…

By: Pithlord

Pithlord — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:22:19 +0000

We don't know much. But we probably know enough to oppose massacres of the protesters, shutting down communications, including the Farsi BBC, arresting opposition figures, and expelling foreign journalists.

Any political situation is complicated. The civil rights movement was complicated. The 1989 revolutions in Eastern Europe were complicated. Outsiders didn't know everything there was to know about either of them. It does not follow that gestures of solidarity should not have been engaged in until subject-matter expertise at the Ph.D. level was obtained.

By: willybobo

willybobo — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:59:25 +0000

I don't know enough about what they're doing, so I don't have any advice for them. They are smarter than me about the situation.

I also think analogizing their situation with that of the twitter-avatar-changer's is misleading. The average Iranian protester has a direct stake in what's happening in their country, and no doubt much more (if not perfect) contextual awareness than the average twitterer.

By: Marie

Marie — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:49:35 +0000

Obviously Mousavi is “no angel.” if he were outside the establishment, the mullahs wouldn't have allowed him to run. But I don't think that enthusiasm for an uprising that may bring the Mousavi-Rafsanjani axis is predicated on the ignorant/probably-false view that these guys are committed democratic liberal reformers on the inside. The enthusiasm is predicated on the fact that, if that faction does come to power, it'll be with an overwhelming, almost irresistable, public mandate to liberalize and democratize at least somewhat. This isn't just about getting different players into power. It's changing the Iranian Overton window.

By: kevlaw

kevlaw — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:41:07 +0000

I plead guilty to all of the sheepish crimes that I am accused of by Will and by the last couple of posters. I don't know nearly enough about what's happening in Iran. There's a good chance that I am being manipulated by someone (to what end, I am not sure). I am following an example set by my sheep-like peers who are just as guilty as me.

Some questions back at you though.

Those people marching in Iran...are they acting without perfect information? Are they being manipulated for ends that they don't understand? Are they following the example of their peers?

What's your advice for them?

Should they have stayed home until they had sufficient data too?

By: E.D. Kain

E.D. Kain — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:07:14 +0000

You're absolutely correct to be cautious, Will. Once the initial excitement over a popular Iranian uprising wears off, we're left with plenty of hard realities that should give us pause. I'm with you: I just don't know enough, and don't think our political establishment does either, to start making broad pronouncements or summations about what this means and what we should do about it.