Comments on: The Caveman Roots of Liberal Democracy?

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By: Pithlord

Pithlord — Wed, 13 May 2009 16:45:23 +0000

That's probably true. It's also probably true that the average Marxist in the US has a higher IQ than the average Democrat or Republican. That just shows that high IQ people are more inclined to excessively ideological or intellectual interpretations of the world.

By: CatoTheYounger

CatoTheYounger — Wed, 13 May 2009 12:40:55 +0000

Yes, I am just using an operational definition of "smart" as having higher IQ. More specifically, the average libertarian has a higher IQ than the average liberal or conservative. I don't think there ever will be a specific cite for that, but that comes sort of naturally from Bryan Caplan's work in Myth of the Rational Voter which shows the higher IQ tend to think more like economists; libertarians tend to have a better-than-average grasp of costs and benefits and an appreciation for the role of price signals in the economy.

I'm not trying to pump anybody up here. There is plenty of research describing the ability of knowledge each IQ tier is capable of; since these aren't going to be mutable any time soon, one would think to become familiar them. In any case, describing the average doesn't tell you the shape of the "# of people" vs. "IQ" ideology curves; our domestic liberals have a two-humped curve, composed of a smaller, very smart group subsidizing a much larger low-skilled group. Domestic "conservatives" probably have a more slowly declining curve from left from to right, with no hump.

I called no one evil. That was a dumb accusation. I called the state "predatory" because it nearly always become malignant and cancerous over time, reducing the expectations of its constituents' standard of living. That process is "corruption" of the ideal. If anything, I am calling for more "evil" libertarians, not starry-eyed optimists who can't judge human nature for what it is.

By: Greg N.

Greg N. — Wed, 13 May 2009 01:09:08 +0000

Yes, libertarians are just smarter than everyone else. That's why we don't win elections. Or is it that everyone else just isn't as moral? That could be it, too. Well, it's one of those. Either everyone else is radically evil, or they're really stupid, at least relative to us REALLY smart, REALLY moral libertarians (talk about redundant!).

By: Notes From Bradlaugh « Around The Sphere

Notes From Bradlaugh « Around The Sphere — Tue, 12 May 2009 21:45:41 +0000

[...] #3: Now the conversation has taken a new subject. Will Wilkinson: I agree that our conservative impulses aren’t going anywhere. So, what if people with [...]

By: CatoTheYounger

CatoTheYounger — Tue, 12 May 2009 11:13:57 +0000

Will Wilkinson still cannot answer Mencius' simple Darwinian argument: if libertarianism is reduced from a philosophy to a slogan, what tangibles does it offer to its rabble-rousers, the “fat part of the bell curve”, for that belief? Nothing. What can other ideologies offer? Lots of things, especially the philosophy of the Marxist and race hustler. This truth ensures the inviolability of libertarianism in the democratic state.

Libertarianism is an abstract ideal to be reached towards in the USG, not a political system. Its very efficacy relies on the fact that it does not similarly offer the fruits that other ideologies do, that deform the incentives of the State's caretakers. All we can do, for now, with little scientific knowledge of the process of ideological formation, and more importantly, the lack of ability to raise the IQ of peoples incapable of understanding the idea, is to combat the predatory state by exploiting the very same collective action problems those who lead the corruption employ – mechanisms like federal lawsuits, installing favored politicians in positions with “soft power”, and exploiting existing cultural mores and biases (e.g., gun culture) for our own ends.

By: Craig

Craig — Fri, 08 May 2009 23:18:00 +0000

Razib -

Yes, I must be. And indeed, being stupid and not being able to read
are not mutually exclusive categories.

But in any case, feel free to continue believing that
there were people with "conservative" and "liberal" psychologies
in the late Roman empire (though you might want to read some history to go with your pop psychology).

By: Secular Right » Politics as personal disposition

Secular Right » Politics as personal disposition — Fri, 08 May 2009 01:11:11 +0000

[...] Wilkinson has a post up, The Caveman Roots of Liberal Democracy?, which riffed off some opinions in regards to the swing back toward “primal” values [...]

By: razib

razib — Thu, 07 May 2009 22:15:42 +0000

A better comparison would be monozygotic twins who have grown up together vs. raised in different homes. Of course, it's a lot harder to get such a data set.

i think bouchard et al did that. or perhaps they only looked at religious intensity.

craig, you're either stupid or can't read.

By: uknowbetter

uknowbetter — Thu, 07 May 2009 16:52:52 +0000

Shrug. Overall, I think people are wired to like things easy.

“Someone is going to give me free stuff? I'll take it and not think of the consequences.”

By: GilM

GilM — Wed, 06 May 2009 23:03:47 +0000

I meant under “standard issue libertarianism” policies vs. “strongly libertarian-leaning liberalism” policies.

I don't know that either are politically feasible.

By: patrissimo

patrissimo — Wed, 06 May 2009 22:42:23 +0000

I'm a big fan of diversification and division of labor, certainly. I think seasteading is perhaps 20% likely to succeed, so I sure don't want it to be the only thing libertarians work on. But given the history of the libertarian movement over the past century, I am just not seeing the kind of slow and steady progression at winning hearts and minds or academic mindshare which would give me hope for that path. But I could well be wrong, it is difficult to measure.

By: Will Wilkinson

Will Wilkinson — Wed, 06 May 2009 22:19:38 +0000

Me too. But we increase our overall odds if we diversify strategies, yes? And division of labor is good, too. I'll work on the moral/political/cultural problem of increasing respect for mobility rights and economic growth, and you build/inspire people to build some new places with alternative schemes of governance that people can choose to move to when the political and economic option is really open to them.

By: Will Wilkinson

Will Wilkinson — Wed, 06 May 2009 22:13:29 +0000

I mean both more coherent and relevant. And yes I expect uptake to result in more flourishing than… what?

What's the comparison point? How much people would flourish if only people were very different? Or much people flourish in various really feasible alternatives?

By: patrissimo

patrissimo — Wed, 06 May 2009 21:39:38 +0000

I am skeptical, but I certainly hope that you are correct.