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	<title>Comments on: Government, Civil Society, and the Utility of Cooperativeness</title>
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	<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/04/07/government-civil-society-and-the-utility-of-cooperativeness/</link>
	<description>The Sweet Release of Reason</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:11:50 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Marie</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/04/07/government-civil-society-and-the-utility-of-cooperativeness/#comment-24104</link>
		<dc:creator>Marie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 21:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The implication is that Iowa should secede, of course.  Do you have time for a side project?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The implication is that Iowa should secede, of course.  Do you have time for a side project?</p>
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		<title>By: Marie</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/04/07/government-civil-society-and-the-utility-of-cooperativeness/#comment-24103</link>
		<dc:creator>Marie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/04/07/government-civil-society-and-the-utility-of-cooperativeness/#comment-24103</guid>
		<description>The implication is that Iowa should secede, of course.  Do you have time for a side project?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The implication is that Iowa should secede, of course.  Do you have time for a side project?</p>
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		<title>By: GilM</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/04/07/government-civil-society-and-the-utility-of-cooperativeness/#comment-24102</link>
		<dc:creator>GilM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 18:55:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/04/07/government-civil-society-and-the-utility-of-cooperativeness/#comment-24102</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But if you’ve got the super-cooperative, high trust conditions for a thriving voluntary civil society, you’ve also got the conditions for a really effective government in which corruption will be minimal and power will tend not to be abused. &lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This doesn&#039;t seem obvious at all to me.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Why won&#039;t government attract the outliers who covet power and are prone to corruption, while those outside government are likely to give them too much benefit of doubt, and cheer as their power grows?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I just don&#039;t see what the cooperativeness of the community has to do with limiting government growth beyond what&#039;s useful.  I think that has more to do with other things, like general understanding of the dangers, and vigilence at limiting government institutionally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But if you’ve got the super-cooperative, high trust conditions for a thriving voluntary civil society, you’ve also got the conditions for a really effective government in which corruption will be minimal and power will tend not to be abused. </i></p>
<p>This doesn&#39;t seem obvious at all to me.</p>
<p>Why won&#39;t government attract the outliers who covet power and are prone to corruption, while those outside government are likely to give them too much benefit of doubt, and cheer as their power grows?</p>
<p>I just don&#39;t see what the cooperativeness of the community has to do with limiting government growth beyond what&#39;s useful.  I think that has more to do with other things, like general understanding of the dangers, and vigilence at limiting government institutionally.</p>
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		<title>By: anom</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/04/07/government-civil-society-and-the-utility-of-cooperativeness/#comment-24101</link>
		<dc:creator>anom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 18:25:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/04/07/government-civil-society-and-the-utility-of-cooperativeness/#comment-24101</guid>
		<description>Simple. Tax the cooperators less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simple. Tax the cooperators less.</p>
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		<title>By: MattC</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/04/07/government-civil-society-and-the-utility-of-cooperativeness/#comment-24100</link>
		<dc:creator>MattC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 10:42:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/04/07/government-civil-society-and-the-utility-of-cooperativeness/#comment-24100</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Will the quality of the government of widest scope tend to average out unequal levels of cooperativeness, such that high-cooperativeness communities will tend to get worse governance than they could provide alone (maybe even worse than they could do without a state) and low cooperativeness communities will tend to get better governance than they could provide alone? It seems that the answer has to be “yes,” but what does this imply?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So...let&#039;s have more federalism?  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It implies that bureaucracy, for all its inefficiency, is highly efficient at one thing - allowing the sample to seek it&#039;s mean.  It&#039;s the overwhelming mathematical rationale for a larger nation-state.  If preventing social disorder is more important that optimizing social order (or &quot;cooperativeness,&quot; in your post), the larger state makes even more logical sense. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I guess this is where your distinctions lie.  The liberaltarian project is one of optimization, not of minimization.  In some cases these two principles are synonomous, but not in the case of governance and cooperativeness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Will the quality of the government of widest scope tend to average out unequal levels of cooperativeness, such that high-cooperativeness communities will tend to get worse governance than they could provide alone (maybe even worse than they could do without a state) and low cooperativeness communities will tend to get better governance than they could provide alone? It seems that the answer has to be “yes,” but what does this imply?</i></p>
<p>So&#8230;let&#39;s have more federalism?  </p>
<p>It implies that bureaucracy, for all its inefficiency, is highly efficient at one thing &#8211; allowing the sample to seek it&#39;s mean.  It&#39;s the overwhelming mathematical rationale for a larger nation-state.  If preventing social disorder is more important that optimizing social order (or &#8220;cooperativeness,&#8221; in your post), the larger state makes even more logical sense. </p>
<p>I guess this is where your distinctions lie.  The liberaltarian project is one of optimization, not of minimization.  In some cases these two principles are synonomous, but not in the case of governance and cooperativeness.</p>
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		<title>By: uknowbetter</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/04/07/government-civil-society-and-the-utility-of-cooperativeness/#comment-24099</link>
		<dc:creator>uknowbetter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 01:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/04/07/government-civil-society-and-the-utility-of-cooperativeness/#comment-24099</guid>
		<description>I was celebrating human achievement hour.  Screw your &quot;we want more force used against people&quot; hour.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was celebrating human achievement hour.  Screw your &#8220;we want more force used against people&#8221; hour.</p>
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		<title>By: Cooperation and the Scope of the Polity &#171; Brad Taylor&#8217;s Blog</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/04/07/government-civil-society-and-the-utility-of-cooperativeness/#comment-24098</link>
		<dc:creator>Cooperation and the Scope of the Polity &#171; Brad Taylor&#8217;s Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 01:23:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/04/07/government-civil-society-and-the-utility-of-cooperativeness/#comment-24098</guid>
		<description>[...] April 8, 2009   Will Wilkinson asks: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] April 8, 2009   Will Wilkinson asks: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Cool Cal</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/04/07/government-civil-society-and-the-utility-of-cooperativeness/#comment-24097</link>
		<dc:creator>Cool Cal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 21:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/04/07/government-civil-society-and-the-utility-of-cooperativeness/#comment-24097</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sorry, I&#039;ve got to say something here.  I see just as much locksteppery among the mainstream left equivalents of what you mention - MSNBC, Kos, Huff Po, etc.  How can you watch Olbermann shrieking on and Jon Stewart kvetching about a cable finance network as though it&#039;s the Whore of Babylon, and not see that these are the doppelgangers of the right wing echo chamber?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And by the way, if Earth Hour was supposed to be so important and such a symbol of collective sacrifice for the common good, then why was it at night on a Saturday, when most people would be using little power at home anyway?  Why not call for oh, say ... 10:00AM on a Wednesday?  Probably because that would in fact be a sacrifice, and those who called for &quot;Earth Hour&quot; would be forced to reconcile their infantile pastoral fantasies with the actual implications of mass, diminished productivity.  Even if one hour of lost work might not cripple the globe economically (or maybe it would, I don&#039;t know), it&#039;s telling that the green coalition shied from this at the get-go, realizing that the majority of human-kind would rather work and be prosperous than sit in idle contemplation of what their well-being is potentially destroying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m sorry, I&#39;ve got to say something here.  I see just as much locksteppery among the mainstream left equivalents of what you mention &#8211; MSNBC, Kos, Huff Po, etc.  How can you watch Olbermann shrieking on and Jon Stewart kvetching about a cable finance network as though it&#39;s the Whore of Babylon, and not see that these are the doppelgangers of the right wing echo chamber?</p>
<p>And by the way, if Earth Hour was supposed to be so important and such a symbol of collective sacrifice for the common good, then why was it at night on a Saturday, when most people would be using little power at home anyway?  Why not call for oh, say &#8230; 10:00AM on a Wednesday?  Probably because that would in fact be a sacrifice, and those who called for &#8220;Earth Hour&#8221; would be forced to reconcile their infantile pastoral fantasies with the actual implications of mass, diminished productivity.  Even if one hour of lost work might not cripple the globe economically (or maybe it would, I don&#39;t know), it&#39;s telling that the green coalition shied from this at the get-go, realizing that the majority of human-kind would rather work and be prosperous than sit in idle contemplation of what their well-being is potentially destroying.</p>
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		<title>By: Meng_Bomin</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/04/07/government-civil-society-and-the-utility-of-cooperativeness/#comment-24096</link>
		<dc:creator>Meng_Bomin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 20:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/04/07/government-civil-society-and-the-utility-of-cooperativeness/#comment-24096</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I think ultimately this comes down to how much further we will evolve. Many people who believe in evolution, ironically think man ceased to continue evolving somewhere around the Neolithic Period. I happen to disagree.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br&gt;Certainly evolution never stops, but I don&#039;t see the sort of change in social behavior of comparative magnitude to the difference between modern humans and baboons with regard to the relationship to authority that you mentioned as coming for quite some time and when it comes it&#039;s hard to know exactly how it will be practiced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I think ultimately this comes down to how much further we will evolve. Many people who believe in evolution, ironically think man ceased to continue evolving somewhere around the Neolithic Period. I happen to disagree.</p></blockquote>
<p>Certainly evolution never stops, but I don&#39;t see the sort of change in social behavior of comparative magnitude to the difference between modern humans and baboons with regard to the relationship to authority that you mentioned as coming for quite some time and when it comes it&#39;s hard to know exactly how it will be practiced.</p>
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		<title>By: H.</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/04/07/government-civil-society-and-the-utility-of-cooperativeness/#comment-24095</link>
		<dc:creator>H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 19:20:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/04/07/government-civil-society-and-the-utility-of-cooperativeness/#comment-24095</guid>
		<description>Listening to the same radio programs (Limbaugh) and reading the same columnists (Coulter, Malkin) increases the trust and cooperativeness of conservatives. Turning on every power switch is a great example of altruistic cooperation. It&#039;s more costly than turning them off so that makes it even more cooperative than Earth Hour.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Just look at all the mainstream conservative websites, blogs and radio shows. They are all in almost perfect lockstep with each other. If that&#039;s not cohesion, I don&#039;t know what is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Listening to the same radio programs (Limbaugh) and reading the same columnists (Coulter, Malkin) increases the trust and cooperativeness of conservatives. Turning on every power switch is a great example of altruistic cooperation. It&#39;s more costly than turning them off so that makes it even more cooperative than Earth Hour.</p>
<p>Just look at all the mainstream conservative websites, blogs and radio shows. They are all in almost perfect lockstep with each other. If that&#39;s not cohesion, I don&#39;t know what is.</p>
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