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	<title>Comments on: Powerpoint for Peter Singer</title>
	<atom:link href="http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/09/powerpoint-for-peter-singer/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/09/powerpoint-for-peter-singer/</link>
	<description>The Sweet Release of Reason</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 20:28:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Trade Diversion &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Thinking big: The gains from immigration</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/09/powerpoint-for-peter-singer/#comment-23082</link>
		<dc:creator>Trade Diversion &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Thinking big: The gains from immigration</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Mar 2009 16:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3126#comment-23082</guid>
		<description>[...] Hat tip: Wilkinson [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Hat tip: Wilkinson [...]</p>
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		<title>By: J Shaffer</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/09/powerpoint-for-peter-singer/#comment-23083</link>
		<dc:creator>J Shaffer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 23:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3126#comment-23083</guid>
		<description>So. . . the job market sucks, unemployment is way up, and people want more immigrants to take what jobs there are. . . wow, a more idiotic idea I haven&#039;t heard since. . . the War on Drugs. . .&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;At least until we get our stuff together, we need to lock down the borders, not open them up. . . it&#039;s almost impossible to count jellybeans when someone is dumping another truckload on top of the those you are counting - and you can&#039;t fix the unemployment problem by dumping truckloads of new people into the job market to compete for jobs that don&#039;t exist. Do you people ever actually spend a few minutes to actually *think*?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So. . . the job market sucks, unemployment is way up, and people want more immigrants to take what jobs there are. . . wow, a more idiotic idea I haven&#39;t heard since. . . the War on Drugs. . .</p>
<p>At least until we get our stuff together, we need to lock down the borders, not open them up. . . it&#39;s almost impossible to count jellybeans when someone is dumping another truckload on top of the those you are counting &#8211; and you can&#39;t fix the unemployment problem by dumping truckloads of new people into the job market to compete for jobs that don&#39;t exist. Do you people ever actually spend a few minutes to actually *think*?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul_G_Brown</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/09/powerpoint-for-peter-singer/#comment-23084</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul_G_Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3126#comment-23084</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;If I possess just one penny, yet everyone else around me possesses NOT A THING, then I am wealthy.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Actually, in this situation the family with the fat kids is the wealthiest. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Just sayin&#039;. Pennies are hard t&#039; chew. But fat kids is good eatin&#039;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If I possess just one penny, yet everyone else around me possesses NOT A THING, then I am wealthy.</i></p>
<p>Actually, in this situation the family with the fat kids is the wealthiest. </p>
<p>Just sayin&#39;. Pennies are hard t&#39; chew. But fat kids is good eatin&#39;!</p>
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		<title>By: truthhassetmefree</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/09/powerpoint-for-peter-singer/#comment-23085</link>
		<dc:creator>truthhassetmefree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 22:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3126#comment-23085</guid>
		<description>Amen to Highlander....not only should I not give my penny away, but why do I have to pay for those who live in la la land and feel that the earth has unlimited resources, and further, curbs on population growth are not important when resources are dwindling?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; WHERE DOES THIS NOTION OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY COME INTO THE PICTURE WHEN IT COMES TO BIRTH CONTROL....or am I too just go along with the idea that anyone and everyone can have as many kids as they want whether they can afford them or not. I THINK NOT. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; As long as all the village idiots believe that we must accept chronic world population growth, i.e. Roman catholic church, then the future is really bleak. I for one, feel that we have achieved a new point in history, where quality is far more important that quantity. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Speaking as a woman, I find the answer simple...it is women who carry only around 400 eggs in their bodies, whereas men have zillions of sperm, thereby making those zillions rather redundant. As well, we know that when quantity prevails, then quality suffers, so take a clue from women&#039;s bodies you profs, monks and other nonthinking neanderthals. Further, any thinking individual knows in their deepest heart of hearts, giving birth to oneself is far more important than filling the earth with creatures never having the ability to improve their lot in life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen to Highlander&#8230;.not only should I not give my penny away, but why do I have to pay for those who live in la la land and feel that the earth has unlimited resources, and further, curbs on population growth are not important when resources are dwindling?</p>
<p> WHERE DOES THIS NOTION OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY COME INTO THE PICTURE WHEN IT COMES TO BIRTH CONTROL&#8230;.or am I too just go along with the idea that anyone and everyone can have as many kids as they want whether they can afford them or not. I THINK NOT. </p>
<p> As long as all the village idiots believe that we must accept chronic world population growth, i.e. Roman catholic church, then the future is really bleak. I for one, feel that we have achieved a new point in history, where quality is far more important that quantity. </p>
<p>Speaking as a woman, I find the answer simple&#8230;it is women who carry only around 400 eggs in their bodies, whereas men have zillions of sperm, thereby making those zillions rather redundant. As well, we know that when quantity prevails, then quality suffers, so take a clue from women&#39;s bodies you profs, monks and other nonthinking neanderthals. Further, any thinking individual knows in their deepest heart of hearts, giving birth to oneself is far more important than filling the earth with creatures never having the ability to improve their lot in life.</p>
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		<title>By: J Shaffer</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/09/powerpoint-for-peter-singer/#comment-23081</link>
		<dc:creator>J Shaffer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3126#comment-23081</guid>
		<description>So. . . the job market sucks, unemployment is way up, and people want more immigrants to take what jobs there are. . . wow, a more idiotic idea I haven&#039;t heard since. . . the War on Drugs. . .&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;At least until we get our stuff together, we need to lock down the borders, not open them up. . . it&#039;s almost impossible to count jellybeans when someone is dumping another truckload on top of the those you are counting - and you can&#039;t fix the unemployment problem by dumping truckloads of new people into the job market to compete for jobs that don&#039;t exist. Do you people ever actually spend a few minutes to actually *think*?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So. . . the job market sucks, unemployment is way up, and people want more immigrants to take what jobs there are. . . wow, a more idiotic idea I haven&#39;t heard since. . . the War on Drugs. . .</p>
<p>At least until we get our stuff together, we need to lock down the borders, not open them up. . . it&#39;s almost impossible to count jellybeans when someone is dumping another truckload on top of the those you are counting &#8211; and you can&#39;t fix the unemployment problem by dumping truckloads of new people into the job market to compete for jobs that don&#39;t exist. Do you people ever actually spend a few minutes to actually *think*?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul_G_Brown</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/09/powerpoint-for-peter-singer/#comment-23080</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul_G_Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3126#comment-23080</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;If I possess just one penny, yet everyone else around me possesses NOT A THING, then I am wealthy.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Actually, in this situation the family with the fat kids is the wealthiest. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Just sayin&#039;. Pennies are hard t&#039; chew. But fat kids is good eatin&#039;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If I possess just one penny, yet everyone else around me possesses NOT A THING, then I am wealthy.</i></p>
<p>Actually, in this situation the family with the fat kids is the wealthiest. </p>
<p>Just sayin&#39;. Pennies are hard t&#39; chew. But fat kids is good eatin&#39;!</p>
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		<title>By: truthhassetmefree</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/09/powerpoint-for-peter-singer/#comment-23079</link>
		<dc:creator>truthhassetmefree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3126#comment-23079</guid>
		<description>Amen to Highlander....not only should I not give my penny away, but why do I have to pay for those who live in la la land and feel that the earth has unlimited resources, and further, curbs on population growth are not important when resources are dwindling?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; WHERE DOES THIS NOTION OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY COME INTO THE PICTURE WHEN IT COMES TO BIRTH CONTROL....or am I too just go along with the idea that anyone and everyone can have as many kids as they want whether they can afford them or not. I THINK NOT. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; As long as all the village idiots believe that we must accept chronic world population growth, i.e. Roman catholic church, then the future is really bleak. I for one, feel that we have achieved a new point in history, where quality is far more important that quantity. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Speaking as a woman, I find the answer simple...it is women who carry only around 400 eggs in their bodies, whereas men have zillions of sperm, thereby making those zillions rather redundant. As well, we know that when quantity prevails, then quality suffers, so take a clue from women&#039;s bodies you profs, monks and other nonthinking neanderthals. Further, any thinking individual knows in their deepest heart of hearts, giving birth to oneself is far more important than filling the earth with creatures never having the ability to improve their lot in life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen to Highlander&#8230;.not only should I not give my penny away, but why do I have to pay for those who live in la la land and feel that the earth has unlimited resources, and further, curbs on population growth are not important when resources are dwindling?</p>
<p> WHERE DOES THIS NOTION OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY COME INTO THE PICTURE WHEN IT COMES TO BIRTH CONTROL&#8230;.or am I too just go along with the idea that anyone and everyone can have as many kids as they want whether they can afford them or not. I THINK NOT. </p>
<p> As long as all the village idiots believe that we must accept chronic world population growth, i.e. Roman catholic church, then the future is really bleak. I for one, feel that we have achieved a new point in history, where quality is far more important that quantity. </p>
<p>Speaking as a woman, I find the answer simple&#8230;it is women who carry only around 400 eggs in their bodies, whereas men have zillions of sperm, thereby making those zillions rather redundant. As well, we know that when quantity prevails, then quality suffers, so take a clue from women&#39;s bodies you profs, monks and other nonthinking neanderthals. Further, any thinking individual knows in their deepest heart of hearts, giving birth to oneself is far more important than filling the earth with creatures never having the ability to improve their lot in life.</p>
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		<title>By: Highlander</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/09/powerpoint-for-peter-singer/#comment-23078</link>
		<dc:creator>Highlander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 06:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3126#comment-23078</guid>
		<description>This is all a line of PURE BS.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If the idiot in Harvard figures what he has, then WHY HASN&#039;T HE donated his ENTIRE salary to the effort which he so ~loftily~ says the rest of us should engage?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;He hasn&#039;t and neither should we.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;POINT: Precisely ~WHAT~ is &#039;poverty?&#039;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That question needs to be answered before =ANY= money is spent, anywhere.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If I possess just one penny, yet everyone else around me possesses NOT A THING, then I am wealthy.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Should I toss my penny to the rest? And for what reason, and with for what good cause should I?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is all a line of PURE BS.</p>
<p>If the idiot in Harvard figures what he has, then WHY HASN&#39;T HE donated his ENTIRE salary to the effort which he so ~loftily~ says the rest of us should engage?</p>
<p>He hasn&#39;t and neither should we.</p>
<p>POINT: Precisely ~WHAT~ is &#39;poverty?&#39;</p>
<p>That question needs to be answered before =ANY= money is spent, anywhere.</p>
<p>If I possess just one penny, yet everyone else around me possesses NOT A THING, then I am wealthy.</p>
<p>Should I toss my penny to the rest? And for what reason, and with for what good cause should I?</p>
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		<title>By: D-</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/09/powerpoint-for-peter-singer/#comment-23077</link>
		<dc:creator>D-</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 18:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3126#comment-23077</guid>
		<description>Yeah, but that&#039;s only detrimental to the native population. Who give a fuck about them? &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.culcom.uio.no/english/news/2008/hylland-eriksen.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The most important blank spot exists now in deconstructing the majority so thoroughly that it can never be called the majority again...&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, but that&#39;s only detrimental to the native population. Who give a fuck about them? <a href="http://www.culcom.uio.no/english/news/2008/hylland-eriksen.html" rel="nofollow">The most important blank spot exists now in deconstructing the majority so thoroughly that it can never be called the majority again&#8230;</a></p>
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		<title>By: D</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/09/powerpoint-for-peter-singer/#comment-23076</link>
		<dc:creator>D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3126#comment-23076</guid>
		<description>How about the findings of Robert Putnam regarding social capital and trust?  Does this affect the benefits that may be gained by allowing more immigration (i.e. more immigration/diversity results in less social capital and trust in commuities)?  Is there some level of immigration that would be detrimental to the communities they are migrating into, resulting in a lower standard of living for the current members of the community, in effect killing the golden goose that prompted the immigration in the first place?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about the findings of Robert Putnam regarding social capital and trust?  Does this affect the benefits that may be gained by allowing more immigration (i.e. more immigration/diversity results in less social capital and trust in commuities)?  Is there some level of immigration that would be detrimental to the communities they are migrating into, resulting in a lower standard of living for the current members of the community, in effect killing the golden goose that prompted the immigration in the first place?</p>
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		<title>By: anonymouse</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/09/powerpoint-for-peter-singer/#comment-23075</link>
		<dc:creator>anonymouse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 03:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3126#comment-23075</guid>
		<description>Many parts of the world have a government so poor and corrupt that it&#039;s pretty much impossible for the politically disadvantage to exert any effective political pressure at all. Why not let them vote with their feet?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many parts of the world have a government so poor and corrupt that it&#39;s pretty much impossible for the politically disadvantage to exert any effective political pressure at all. Why not let them vote with their feet?</p>
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		<title>By: DaveinHackensack</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/09/powerpoint-for-peter-singer/#comment-23074</link>
		<dc:creator>DaveinHackensack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 02:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3126#comment-23074</guid>
		<description>Unskilled immigration lowers wages for unskilled natives, and drains government resources, because unskilled immigrants tend to consume more in government resources than they pay in taxes. Remittances from unskilled immigrants to their home countries have also had dysfunctional effects -- creating a culture of dependency, stifling local economic growth, etc.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Poverty and poor living conditions in the developing world are due mainly to bad government. If, for example, the tens of millions of Mexican nationals living in the U.S. illegally had stayed in Mexico, they might have exerted some political pressure on their government to improve the economic situation there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unskilled immigration lowers wages for unskilled natives, and drains government resources, because unskilled immigrants tend to consume more in government resources than they pay in taxes. Remittances from unskilled immigrants to their home countries have also had dysfunctional effects &#8212; creating a culture of dependency, stifling local economic growth, etc.</p>
<p>Poverty and poor living conditions in the developing world are due mainly to bad government. If, for example, the tens of millions of Mexican nationals living in the U.S. illegally had stayed in Mexico, they might have exerted some political pressure on their government to improve the economic situation there.</p>
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		<title>By: DMonteith</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/09/powerpoint-for-peter-singer/#comment-23073</link>
		<dc:creator>DMonteith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 23:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3126#comment-23073</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;One tricky point here is that proving a short-term effect is much easier than proving a long-term effect, because there is more uncertainty in long-term prediction.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Very true, but the corollary here is that greater certainty may arrive only after optimal inflection points for action.  Accepting lower returns for the sake of hedging risk is common practice in finance but it&#039;s apparently heresy to apply the same logic to these kinds of questions.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;To be clear, I&#039;m all for improving the plight of the global poor right now because all evidence indicates that desperate people make decisions strictly weighted, understandably, toward short term results.  The negative correlation between wealth/education and population growth speaks to this.   The accelerated depletion rates that raising the living standards of the poor implies, however, could be substantially mitigated through redistribution, but, y&#039;know, crazy talk and all that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>One tricky point here is that proving a short-term effect is much easier than proving a long-term effect, because there is more uncertainty in long-term prediction.</i></p>
<p>Very true, but the corollary here is that greater certainty may arrive only after optimal inflection points for action.  Accepting lower returns for the sake of hedging risk is common practice in finance but it&#39;s apparently heresy to apply the same logic to these kinds of questions.</p>
<p>To be clear, I&#39;m all for improving the plight of the global poor right now because all evidence indicates that desperate people make decisions strictly weighted, understandably, toward short term results.  The negative correlation between wealth/education and population growth speaks to this.   The accelerated depletion rates that raising the living standards of the poor implies, however, could be substantially mitigated through redistribution, but, y&#39;know, crazy talk and all that.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/09/powerpoint-for-peter-singer/#comment-23072</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 22:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3126#comment-23072</guid>
		<description>This graph should probably have some log based scale.  The last dollar in a 10,000 dollar increase in someones wage is several orders of magnitude less important than the first.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But I do agree with the general argument.  Liberalized immigration is an ideal situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This graph should probably have some log based scale.  The last dollar in a 10,000 dollar increase in someones wage is several orders of magnitude less important than the first.</p>
<p>But I do agree with the general argument.  Liberalized immigration is an ideal situation.</p>
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		<title>By: mk</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/09/powerpoint-for-peter-singer/#comment-23071</link>
		<dc:creator>mk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 21:49:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3126#comment-23071</guid>
		<description>One tricky point here is that proving a short-term effect is much easier than proving a long-term effect, because there is more uncertainty in long-term prediction.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So,  showing there is an injustice due to migration controls (short-term phenomenon) is easier than showing there is an injustice because of sustainability problems (long-term prediction).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Of course there is always a risk that what looks good in the short term (relaxing migration restrictions, putting $$$ in people&#039;s wallet to increase world consumption) may have bad long term effects. But it&#039;s harder to show.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The seeming fishiness of limitless exponential growth given finite resources should give people pause, however. Certainly there is no iron law that says that has to go on forever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One tricky point here is that proving a short-term effect is much easier than proving a long-term effect, because there is more uncertainty in long-term prediction.</p>
<p>So,  showing there is an injustice due to migration controls (short-term phenomenon) is easier than showing there is an injustice because of sustainability problems (long-term prediction).</p>
<p>Of course there is always a risk that what looks good in the short term (relaxing migration restrictions, putting $$$ in people&#39;s wallet to increase world consumption) may have bad long term effects. But it&#39;s harder to show.</p>
<p>The seeming fishiness of limitless exponential growth given finite resources should give people pause, however. Certainly there is no iron law that says that has to go on forever.</p>
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