Comments on: Check Out the Graphs on Andrew Gelman http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/02/check-out-the-graphs-on-andrew-gelman/ The Sweet Release of Reason Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:11:50 +0000 hourly 1 By: Steve Knott http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/02/check-out-the-graphs-on-andrew-gelman/#comment-22278 Steve Knott Wed, 04 Mar 2009 02:55:29 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3025#comment-22278 Why does it have to be moral conflict? Why can it not be that a percentage of the well off realize that they have a duty as 'well off people' to give back to the system which allowed them to become well off? And so don't mind progressive taxation? And so judge between the parties on matters other than pocketbook? On perhaps ... just to pick an example ... "the good of the Republic" ... or "seperartion of church and state" .... or pick one ... when you stop looking at your own pocket book the playing field changes ... not all in one direction certainly ... but it changes. Why does it have to be moral conflict? Why can it not be that a percentage of the well off realize that they have a duty as 'well off people' to give back to the system which allowed them to become well off? And so don't mind progressive taxation? And so judge between the parties on matters other than pocketbook? On perhaps … just to pick an example … “the good of the Republic” … or “seperartion of church and state” …. or pick one … when you stop looking at your own pocket book the playing field changes … not all in one direction certainly … but it changes.

]]> By: mattc http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/02/check-out-the-graphs-on-andrew-gelman/#comment-22279 mattc Wed, 04 Mar 2009 01:34:43 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3025#comment-22279 It's really not very hard to understand: Democtrats reached equality to Republican voteshare in people who make 6-figures. I believe Obama may have even won this Demographic outright. Look at NY, CT, and CA - some of the wealthier states - all blue.<br><br>My guess would be that for "SuperRich" people - eg. people making $1 million or more - morality is conflicted with the fact that they are SuperRich. There's a point in the income distribution where you have to sacrifice some of your morals to become as rich as you are. I would think that there are some people in this group that feel very guilty, no matter how often they go to church. It's really not very hard to understand: Democtrats reached equality to Republican voteshare in people who make 6-figures. I believe Obama may have even won this Demographic outright. Look at NY, CT, and CA – some of the wealthier states – all blue.

My guess would be that for “SuperRich” people – eg. people making $1 million or more – morality is conflicted with the fact that they are SuperRich. There's a point in the income distribution where you have to sacrifice some of your morals to become as rich as you are. I would think that there are some people in this group that feel very guilty, no matter how often they go to church.

]]> By: Fundman http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/02/check-out-the-graphs-on-andrew-gelman/#comment-22280 Fundman Wed, 04 Mar 2009 01:19:20 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3025#comment-22280 Measuring church attendance has long been used as a highly imperfect surrogate for religiosity, and it's highly imperfect, particularly among Catholics. I wouldn't read this much into it other than the GOP has a problem if the country gets more secular. Measuring church attendance has long been used as a highly imperfect surrogate for religiosity, and it's highly imperfect, particularly among Catholics. I wouldn't read this much into it other than the GOP has a problem if the country gets more secular.

]]> By: bianca steele http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/02/check-out-the-graphs-on-andrew-gelman/#comment-22281 bianca steele Wed, 04 Mar 2009 01:02:20 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3025#comment-22281 It's curious that at the third quartile, the change in slope is so dramatic, and most dramatic in the people in the middle (neither always nor never attend church). Other than this section of the graph, each of the lines is fairly similar to each of the others, and each could almost be approximated to a straight line. A few of the other graphs posted at 538 show a similar pattern. It's curious that at the third quartile, the change in slope is so dramatic, and most dramatic in the people in the middle (neither always nor never attend church). Other than this section of the graph, each of the lines is fairly similar to each of the others, and each could almost be approximated to a straight line. A few of the other graphs posted at 538 show a similar pattern.

]]> By: JP http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/02/check-out-the-graphs-on-andrew-gelman/#comment-22282 JP Tue, 03 Mar 2009 22:21:01 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3025#comment-22282 Geography.<br><br>The top quintile disproportionately can be found in urban centers. Political preferences are strongly influenced by the people one associates with, which explains why church attendance (mostly) increases the tendency to vote Republican. (Going to church with social conservatives makes you more conservative.) However, in large enough cities, the population will lean Democratic strongly enough that church attendance does not suggest increased association with social conservatives. Geography.

The top quintile disproportionately can be found in urban centers. Political preferences are strongly influenced by the people one associates with, which explains why church attendance (mostly) increases the tendency to vote Republican. (Going to church with social conservatives makes you more conservative.) However, in large enough cities, the population will lean Democratic strongly enough that church attendance does not suggest increased association with social conservatives.

]]> By: Will Wilkinson http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/02/check-out-the-graphs-on-andrew-gelman/#comment-22284 Will Wilkinson Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:24:05 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3025#comment-22284 This is the straight data. In Andrew's post, he makes the case for the virtues of eyeballing plain data. This is the straight data. In Andrew's post, he makes the case for the virtues of eyeballing plain data.

]]> By: ryan yin http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/02/check-out-the-graphs-on-andrew-gelman/#comment-22283 ryan yin Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:19:47 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3025#comment-22283 I really should check myself rather than asking (I would plead busy morning, but then why am I looking at a blog?), but are they controlling for other variables, or is this just the straight data? I'm specifically thinking about education, but maybe race & gender too. IIRC playing around with GSS, holding race & gender constant, income makes one slightly more conservative (holding education equal) and education makes more one slightly more liberal (or at least socially liberal), holding income constant. I wonder what happens to the bends in those curves if they control for education (assuming they haven't) or if don't (assuming they have)? I really should check myself rather than asking (I would plead busy morning, but then why am I looking at a blog?), but are they controlling for other variables, or is this just the straight data? I'm specifically thinking about education, but maybe race & gender too. IIRC playing around with GSS, holding race & gender constant, income makes one slightly more conservative (holding education equal) and education makes more one slightly more liberal (or at least socially liberal), holding income constant. I wonder what happens to the bends in those curves if they control for education (assuming they haven't) or if don't (assuming they have)?

]]> By: Steve Knott http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/02/check-out-the-graphs-on-andrew-gelman/#comment-22277 Steve Knott Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:55:29 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3025#comment-22277 Why does it have to be moral conflict? Why can it not be that a percentage of the well off realize that they have a duty as 'well off people' to give back to the system which allowed them to become well off? And so don't mind progressive taxation? And so judge between the parties on matters other than pocketbook? On perhaps ... just to pick an example ... "the good of the Republic" ... or "seperartion of church and state" .... or pick one ... when you stop looking at your own pocket book the playing field changes ... not all in one direction certainly ... but it changes. Why does it have to be moral conflict? Why can it not be that a percentage of the well off realize that they have a duty as 'well off people' to give back to the system which allowed them to become well off? And so don't mind progressive taxation? And so judge between the parties on matters other than pocketbook? On perhaps … just to pick an example … “the good of the Republic” … or “seperartion of church and state” …. or pick one … when you stop looking at your own pocket book the playing field changes … not all in one direction certainly … but it changes.

]]> By: mattc http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/02/check-out-the-graphs-on-andrew-gelman/#comment-22276 mattc Tue, 03 Mar 2009 17:34:43 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3025#comment-22276 It's really not very hard to understand: Democtrats reached equality to Republican voteshare in people who make 6-figures. I believe Obama may have even won this Demographic outright. Look at NY, CT, and CA - some of the wealthier states - all blue.<br><br>My guess would be that for "SuperRich" people - eg. people making $1 million or more - morality is conflicted with the fact that they are SuperRich. There's a point in the income distribution where you have to sacrifice some of your morals to become as rich as you are. I would think that there are some people in this group that feel very guilty, no matter how often they go to church. It's really not very hard to understand: Democtrats reached equality to Republican voteshare in people who make 6-figures. I believe Obama may have even won this Demographic outright. Look at NY, CT, and CA – some of the wealthier states – all blue.

My guess would be that for “SuperRich” people – eg. people making $1 million or more – morality is conflicted with the fact that they are SuperRich. There's a point in the income distribution where you have to sacrifice some of your morals to become as rich as you are. I would think that there are some people in this group that feel very guilty, no matter how often they go to church.

]]> By: Fundman http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/03/02/check-out-the-graphs-on-andrew-gelman/#comment-22275 Fundman Tue, 03 Mar 2009 17:19:20 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=3025#comment-22275 Measuring church attendance has long been used as a highly imperfect surrogate for religiosity, and it's highly imperfect, particularly among Catholics. I wouldn't read this much into it other than the GOP has a problem if the country gets more secular. Measuring church attendance has long been used as a highly imperfect surrogate for religiosity, and it's highly imperfect, particularly among Catholics. I wouldn't read this much into it other than the GOP has a problem if the country gets more secular.

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