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	<title>Comments on: MLK, BHO, and Moral Progress</title>
	<atom:link href="http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/01/19/mlk-bho-and-moral-progress/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/01/19/mlk-bho-and-moral-progress/</link>
	<description>The Sweet Release of Reason</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 20:28:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: GilM</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/01/19/mlk-bho-and-moral-progress/#comment-19967</link>
		<dc:creator>GilM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2445#comment-19967</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m guessing that we also differ in who those might be.  Despite your reference to Bush (I just don&#039;t see it), my first thoughts were Kennedy and Clinton.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And, of course, if  you&#039;d gone back further we&#039;d have to acknowledge FDR.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m guessing that we also differ in who those might be.  Despite your reference to Bush (I just don&#39;t see it), my first thoughts were Kennedy and Clinton.</p>
<p>And, of course, if  you&#39;d gone back further we&#39;d have to acknowledge FDR.</p>
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		<title>By: GilM</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/01/19/mlk-bho-and-moral-progress/#comment-19968</link>
		<dc:creator>GilM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 22:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2445#comment-19968</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think he was using &quot;liberal&quot; or &quot;democratic&quot; in the way you think he was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#39;t think he was using &#8220;liberal&#8221; or &#8220;democratic&#8221; in the way you think he was.</p>
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		<title>By: GilM</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/01/19/mlk-bho-and-moral-progress/#comment-19966</link>
		<dc:creator>GilM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2445#comment-19966</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m guessing that we also differ in who those might be.  Despite your reference to Bush (I just don&#039;t see it), my first thoughts were Kennedy and Clinton.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And, of course, if  you&#039;d gone back further we&#039;d have to acknowledge FDR.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m guessing that we also differ in who those might be.  Despite your reference to Bush (I just don&#39;t see it), my first thoughts were Kennedy and Clinton.</p>
<p>And, of course, if  you&#39;d gone back further we&#39;d have to acknowledge FDR.</p>
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		<title>By: GilM</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/01/19/mlk-bho-and-moral-progress/#comment-19965</link>
		<dc:creator>GilM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 14:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2445#comment-19965</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think he was using &quot;liberal&quot; or &quot;democratic&quot; in the way you think it was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#39;t think he was using &#8220;liberal&#8221; or &#8220;democratic&#8221; in the way you think it was.</p>
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		<title>By: Amicus</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/01/19/mlk-bho-and-moral-progress/#comment-19964</link>
		<dc:creator>Amicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 06:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2445#comment-19964</guid>
		<description>... the personality cultishness .... That&#039;s richly deserved.&lt;br&gt;=====&lt;br&gt;When I think over the leaders of the past, say, 50 years, and those who truly worked to develop personality cults for themselves and used it to wield significant power, I cannot help but think that Mr. Obama is ... bush league, when it comes to &#039;personality cutlishness&#039;...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I guess we just differ in our assessments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; the personality cultishness &#8230;. That&#39;s richly deserved.<br />=====<br />When I think over the leaders of the past, say, 50 years, and those who truly worked to develop personality cults for themselves and used it to wield significant power, I cannot help but think that Mr. Obama is &#8230; bush league, when it comes to &#39;personality cutlishness&#39;&#8230;</p>
<p>I guess we just differ in our assessments.</p>
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		<title>By: Amicus</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/01/19/mlk-bho-and-moral-progress/#comment-19963</link>
		<dc:creator>Amicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 06:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2445#comment-19963</guid>
		<description>Who is &quot;we&quot; in your writing and in Will&#039;s?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As I say, it&#039;s not in the text:  &quot;thanks to MLK, to those who marched beside him [any mush-heads?], and to the tens of millions to whom he gave such a powerful voice [any starry-eyed?], we have become better.&quot;  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Where is the positive nod to liberals or liberalism, in that?  Or here:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;I think I’m not being cynical about liberal democratic politics when I concede that it is a very advanced, civilized, and relatively peaceful form of organized coalitional agression.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Is that &quot;enthusiastic&quot; praise for liberals/liberalism or a liberal project?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;No, the tenor is, &#039;boy, I&#039;m sure proud of where &#039;we&#039;ve&#039; got to&quot;, despite those contemptible, mush-headed liberal followers of Obama, etc.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Here, I&#039;ll go a step further.  Without the &quot;mush heads&quot; or &quot;starry-eyed&quot; of their day, do you think there would be Wilkersonian pride today?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who is &#8220;we&#8221; in your writing and in Will&#39;s?</p>
<p>As I say, it&#39;s not in the text:  &#8220;thanks to MLK, to those who marched beside him [any mush-heads?], and to the tens of millions to whom he gave such a powerful voice [any starry-eyed?], we have become better.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Where is the positive nod to liberals or liberalism, in that?  Or here:</p>
<p>&#8220;I think I’m not being cynical about liberal democratic politics when I concede that it is a very advanced, civilized, and relatively peaceful form of organized coalitional agression.&#8221;</p>
<p>Is that &#8220;enthusiastic&#8221; praise for liberals/liberalism or a liberal project?</p>
<p>No, the tenor is, &#39;boy, I&#39;m sure proud of where &#39;we&#39;ve&#39; got to&#8221;, despite those contemptible, mush-headed liberal followers of Obama, etc.</p>
<p>Here, I&#39;ll go a step further.  Without the &#8220;mush heads&#8221; or &#8220;starry-eyed&#8221; of their day, do you think there would be Wilkersonian pride today?</p>
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		<title>By: GilM</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/01/19/mlk-bho-and-moral-progress/#comment-19962</link>
		<dc:creator>GilM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 05:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2445#comment-19962</guid>
		<description>How can you not see it?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The main point of the post is about the tremendous moral progress we&#039;ve made in terms of civil equality.  The civil rights movement was largely a liberal project, and Will enthusiastically supports and praises it.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It&#039;s the personality cultishness that he insults.  That&#039;s richly deserved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How can you not see it?</p>
<p>The main point of the post is about the tremendous moral progress we&#39;ve made in terms of civil equality.  The civil rights movement was largely a liberal project, and Will enthusiastically supports and praises it.</p>
<p>It&#39;s the personality cultishness that he insults.  That&#39;s richly deserved.</p>
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		<title>By: Amicus</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/01/19/mlk-bho-and-moral-progress/#comment-19961</link>
		<dc:creator>Amicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 03:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2445#comment-19961</guid>
		<description>Really?  Just bringing them with me?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think you are finding more in the text than is there.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Is there something positive or decent about Liberals or Liberalism that is clearly and unequivocally brought forward in this piece?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If there were, it might substantiate your qualification, &quot;some&quot;, but really I don&#039;t see it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really?  Just bringing them with me?</p>
<p>I think you are finding more in the text than is there.</p>
<p>Is there something positive or decent about Liberals or Liberalism that is clearly and unequivocally brought forward in this piece?</p>
<p>If there were, it might substantiate your qualification, &#8220;some&#8221;, but really I don&#39;t see it.</p>
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		<title>By: links for 2009-01-24 &#171; Overton&#8217;s Arrow</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/01/19/mlk-bho-and-moral-progress/#comment-19960</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2009-01-24 &#171; Overton&#8217;s Arrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 00:32:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2445#comment-19960</guid>
		<description>[...] MLK, BHO, and Moral Progress &quot;Now, I’m cynical about the romantic personality cult around Barack Obama because I am cynical about the romantic personality cult around the American presidency, which, because it is contemptible and stupid, demands cynicism. I think I’m not being cynical about liberal democratic politics when I concede that it is a very advanced, civilized, and relatively peaceful form of organized coalitional agression. But I’m definitely not cynical about what Barack Obama’s election means in light of the “Letter from the Birmingham Jail.” I’m admiring, I’m proud, of that.&quot; (tags: Obama mlk morals progress government politics history race) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] MLK, BHO, and Moral Progress &quot;Now, I’m cynical about the romantic personality cult around Barack Obama because I am cynical about the romantic personality cult around the American presidency, which, because it is contemptible and stupid, demands cynicism. I think I’m not being cynical about liberal democratic politics when I concede that it is a very advanced, civilized, and relatively peaceful form of organized coalitional agression. But I’m definitely not cynical about what Barack Obama’s election means in light of the “Letter from the Birmingham Jail.” I’m admiring, I’m proud, of that.&quot; (tags: Obama mlk morals progress government politics history race) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Entertainment Blogs &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Posture</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/01/19/mlk-bho-and-moral-progress/#comment-19959</link>
		<dc:creator>Entertainment Blogs &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Posture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2445#comment-19959</guid>
		<description>[...] makes a recommendation: Because I intend to be pretty hard on Obama, the politician, and his starry-eyed, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] makes a recommendation: Because I intend to be pretty hard on Obama, the politician, and his starry-eyed, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Webgrrl</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/01/19/mlk-bho-and-moral-progress/#comment-19958</link>
		<dc:creator>Webgrrl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2445#comment-19958</guid>
		<description>It shows that unlike many other countries our justice system is strong and respected. That America&#039;s 3-branch system works to ensure justice is done and the promise of liberty is extended to all as the Founding Fathers clearly stated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It shows that unlike many other countries our justice system is strong and respected. That America&#39;s 3-branch system works to ensure justice is done and the promise of liberty is extended to all as the Founding Fathers clearly stated.</p>
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		<title>By: GilM</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/01/19/mlk-bho-and-moral-progress/#comment-19957</link>
		<dc:creator>GilM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2445#comment-19957</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t read Will to imply that &quot;liberal&quot; and &quot;mush headed&quot; were equivalent.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think he sees &lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt; (the ones he&#039;s going to be hard on) of Obama&#039;s followers as &quot;starry-eyed&quot; and &quot;mush headed&quot;.  That seems uncontroversially true to me.  Some are.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And, I haven&#039;t seen anything he&#039;s written that implied that either &#039;liberal moral progress&#039; or Obama were farcical.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You seem to be bringing some of these ideas with you, rather than finding them here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#39;t read Will to imply that &#8220;liberal&#8221; and &#8220;mush headed&#8221; were equivalent.</p>
<p>I think he sees <i>some</i> (the ones he&#39;s going to be hard on) of Obama&#39;s followers as &#8220;starry-eyed&#8221; and &#8220;mush headed&#8221;.  That seems uncontroversially true to me.  Some are.</p>
<p>And, I haven&#39;t seen anything he&#39;s written that implied that either &#39;liberal moral progress&#39; or Obama were farcical.</p>
<p>You seem to be bringing some of these ideas with you, rather than finding them here.</p>
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		<title>By: Amicus</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/01/19/mlk-bho-and-moral-progress/#comment-19956</link>
		<dc:creator>Amicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2445#comment-19956</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t read enough Wilkenson to know, honestly; but he couldn&#039;t go wrong with better quidditas/quiditties, from Quine or otherwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#39;t read enough Wilkenson to know, honestly; but he couldn&#39;t go wrong with better quidditas/quiditties, from Quine or otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: Amicus</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/01/19/mlk-bho-and-moral-progress/#comment-19955</link>
		<dc:creator>Amicus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2445#comment-19955</guid>
		<description>Sorry, if I don&#039;t find the leeway you do.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Frankly, I&#039;m rather frustratingly bored to see the continual equation of &quot;liberal&quot; with &quot;mush headed&quot;.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And I don&#039;t see any intellectually superior or insouciant position of Will&#039;s that makes it interesting analysis to more or less label &#039;liberal moral progress&#039; (or Obama) as something like Le Bon Doctor, Malgre Lui.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, if I don&#39;t find the leeway you do.</p>
<p>Frankly, I&#39;m rather frustratingly bored to see the continual equation of &#8220;liberal&#8221; with &#8220;mush headed&#8221;.</p>
<p>And I don&#39;t see any intellectually superior or insouciant position of Will&#39;s that makes it interesting analysis to more or less label &#39;liberal moral progress&#39; (or Obama) as something like Le Bon Doctor, Malgre Lui.</p>
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		<title>By: mk</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2009/01/19/mlk-bho-and-moral-progress/#comment-19954</link>
		<dc:creator>mk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 05:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=2445#comment-19954</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#39;s true.</p>
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