Comments on: Pinker on the Moral Sense http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/ The Sweet Release of Reason Tue, 22 May 2012 20:28:45 +0000 hourly 1 By: izlesene http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11358 izlesene Wed, 16 Dec 2009 03:56:46 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11358 thanks man nice article thanks man nice article

]]> By: izlesene http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11357 izlesene Tue, 15 Dec 2009 19:56:46 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11357 thanks man nice article thanks man nice article

]]> By: yurtdisiegitimi http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11356 yurtdisiegitimi Thu, 01 Jan 2009 19:53:06 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11356 I wish this blog was in other languages as well, like in German. I wish this blog was in other languages as well, like in German.

]]> By: Tummy Fat Joe http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11355 Tummy Fat Joe Thu, 23 Oct 2008 05:09:40 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11355 Well I think it was nice overview Well I think it was nice overview

]]> By: Yurtdisi Egitim http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11354 Yurtdisi Egitim Sun, 24 Feb 2008 09:00:39 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11354 does anyone knows if there is any other information about this subject in other languages? does anyone knows if there is any other information about this subject in other languages?

]]> By: Yurtdisi Egitim http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11369 Yurtdisi Egitim Sun, 24 Feb 2008 09:00:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11369 does anyone knows if there is any other information about this subject in other languages? does anyone knows if there is any other information about this subject in other languages?

]]> By: Charles Manning (manning120) http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11353 Charles Manning (manning120) Tue, 19 Feb 2008 03:58:56 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11353 People are getting all sorts of disparate ideas from Pinker's article. To me it has nothing to do with liberalism. Pinker merely points out that we're inspired to morality genetically, which means, by Darwinian evolution. What he fails to point out is that the particular moral rules we're inspired to adopt and follow arise not directly from the moral sense, but from the use of intelligence and learning in response to the moral sense. It's like language: we have the urge and the ability to learn and speak language, but we couldn't learn English or Chinese unless we were taught. Pinker alleges that the moral rules he considers illusions, or impulsive, or intuitive, are innately tied to the moral sense, whereas the moral rules he advocates (without admitting or explaining the advocacy) aren't. That's wrong. All moral assertions get their power from the moral sense, including those Pinker favors. By the way, he advocates utilitarianism, which may or may not be liberal. However, his moral orientation leads him in startling directions. He justifies incest under certain circumstances. I think his rationale for that could easily excuse some forms of pedophilia. He thinks Bill Gates is a better role model than Mother Teresa. Leave all that aside. The insight that the moral sense lies in each of us as an evolutionary legacy is worth knowing. Just don't fall for the fallacy that some moral rules escape the influence of the moral sense, while others arose in the total absence of intelligence and learning. People are getting all sorts of disparate ideas from Pinker’s article. To me it has nothing to do with liberalism. Pinker merely points out that we’re inspired to morality genetically, which means, by Darwinian evolution. What he fails to point out is that the particular moral rules we’re inspired to adopt and follow arise not directly from the moral sense, but from the use of intelligence and learning in response to the moral sense. It’s like language: we have the urge and the ability to learn and speak language, but we couldn’t learn English or Chinese unless we were taught. Pinker alleges that the moral rules he considers illusions, or impulsive, or intuitive, are innately tied to the moral sense, whereas the moral rules he advocates (without admitting or explaining the advocacy) aren’t. That’s wrong. All moral assertions get their power from the moral sense, including those Pinker favors. By the way, he advocates utilitarianism, which may or may not be liberal. However, his moral orientation leads him in startling directions. He justifies incest under certain circumstances. I think his rationale for that could easily excuse some forms of pedophilia. He thinks Bill Gates is a better role model than Mother Teresa. Leave all that aside. The insight that the moral sense lies in each of us as an evolutionary legacy is worth knowing. Just don’t fall for the fallacy that some moral rules escape the influence of the moral sense, while others arose in the total absence of intelligence and learning.

]]> By: Charles Manning (manning120) http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11360 Charles Manning (manning120) Tue, 19 Feb 2008 03:58:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11360 People are getting all sorts of disparate ideas from Pinker's article. To me it has nothing to do with liberalism. Pinker merely points out that we're inspired to morality genetically, which means, by Darwinian evolution. What he fails to point out is that the particular moral rules we're inspired to adopt and follow arise not directly from the moral sense, but from the use of intelligence and learning in response to the moral sense. It's like language: we have the urge and the ability to learn and speak language, but we couldn't learn English or Chinese unless we were taught. Pinker alleges that the moral rules he considers illusions, or impulsive, or intuitive, are innately tied to the moral sense, whereas the moral rules he advocates (without admitting or explaining the advocacy) aren't. That's wrong. All moral assertions get their power from the moral sense, including those Pinker favors. By the way, he advocates utilitarianism, which may or may not be liberal. However, his moral orientation leads him in startling directions. He justifies incest under certain circumstances. I think his rationale for that could easily excuse some forms of pedophilia. He thinks Bill Gates is a better role model than Mother Teresa. Leave all that aside. The insight that the moral sense lies in each of us as an evolutionary legacy is worth knowing. Just don't fall for the fallacy that some moral rules escape the influence of the moral sense, while others arose in the total absence of intelligence and learning. People are getting all sorts of disparate ideas from Pinker’s article. To me it has nothing to do with liberalism. Pinker merely points out that we’re inspired to morality genetically, which means, by Darwinian evolution. What he fails to point out is that the particular moral rules we’re inspired to adopt and follow arise not directly from the moral sense, but from the use of intelligence and learning in response to the moral sense. It’s like language: we have the urge and the ability to learn and speak language, but we couldn’t learn English or Chinese unless we were taught. Pinker alleges that the moral rules he considers illusions, or impulsive, or intuitive, are innately tied to the moral sense, whereas the moral rules he advocates (without admitting or explaining the advocacy) aren’t. That’s wrong. All moral assertions get their power from the moral sense, including those Pinker favors. By the way, he advocates utilitarianism, which may or may not be liberal. However, his moral orientation leads him in startling directions. He justifies incest under certain circumstances. I think his rationale for that could easily excuse some forms of pedophilia. He thinks Bill Gates is a better role model than Mother Teresa. Leave all that aside. The insight that the moral sense lies in each of us as an evolutionary legacy is worth knowing. Just don’t fall for the fallacy that some moral rules escape the influence of the moral sense, while others arose in the total absence of intelligence and learning.

]]> By: Jeff http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11352 Jeff Thu, 17 Jan 2008 03:44:24 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11352 I will fight; will fight with my heart. I will fight; will fight with understanding. Here In my mind, the weather never changes Skill overcomes, difficult situations. A straight line exists between me and the good things. I have found the line and its direction is known to me. Absolute trust keeps me going in the right direction. Any intrusion is met with a heart full of the good thing. Try to compare what I am presenting. You will meet with much frustration. Try to find ... similar situation. You will always find the same solution. As the heart finds the good thing, the feeling is multiplied. Add the will to the strength and it equals conviction. As we economise, efficiency is multiplied, To the extent I am determined the result is the good thing. So I say: I have adopted this and made it my own: Cut back the weakness, reinforce what is strong. I will fight; will fight with my heart.
I will fight; will fight with understanding.
Here In my mind, the weather never changes
Skill overcomes, difficult situations.

A straight line exists between me and the good things.
I have found the line and its direction is known to me.
Absolute trust keeps me going in the right direction.
Any intrusion is met with a heart full of the good thing.

Try to compare what I am presenting.
You will meet with much frustration.
Try to find … similar situation.
You will always find the same solution.

As the heart finds the good thing, the feeling is multiplied.
Add the will to the strength and it equals conviction.
As we economise, efficiency is multiplied,
To the extent I am determined the result is the good thing.
So I say:
I have adopted this and made it my own:
Cut back the weakness, reinforce what is strong.

]]> By: Jeff http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11359 Jeff Thu, 17 Jan 2008 03:44:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11359 I will fight; will fight with my heart. I will fight; will fight with understanding. Here In my mind, the weather never changes Skill overcomes, difficult situations. A straight line exists between me and the good things. I have found the line and its direction is known to me. Absolute trust keeps me going in the right direction. Any intrusion is met with a heart full of the good thing. Try to compare what I am presenting. You will meet with much frustration. Try to find ... similar situation. You will always find the same solution. As the heart finds the good thing, the feeling is multiplied. Add the will to the strength and it equals conviction. As we economise, efficiency is multiplied, To the extent I am determined the result is the good thing. So I say: I have adopted this and made it my own: Cut back the weakness, reinforce what is strong. I will fight; will fight with my heart.
I will fight; will fight with understanding.
Here In my mind, the weather never changes
Skill overcomes, difficult situations.

A straight line exists between me and the good things.
I have found the line and its direction is known to me.
Absolute trust keeps me going in the right direction.
Any intrusion is met with a heart full of the good thing.

Try to compare what I am presenting.
You will meet with much frustration.
Try to find … similar situation.
You will always find the same solution.

As the heart finds the good thing, the feeling is multiplied.
Add the will to the strength and it equals conviction.
As we economise, efficiency is multiplied,
To the extent I am determined the result is the good thing.
So I say:
I have adopted this and made it my own:
Cut back the weakness, reinforce what is strong.

]]> By: TGGP http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11351 TGGP Wed, 16 Jan 2008 04:11:17 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11351 I agree with a <a href="http://entitledtoanopinion.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/first-post-of-2008/" rel="nofollow">different</a> Edge contributor on morality. <i>Why not just say that a more thoroughly liberal calibration of the moral sense will deliver a huge list of incredibly attractive goods for everyone in the world, and leave it at that?</i> Illiberal people may not find those goods attractive. <i>If some can’t be persuaded to care about those goods, then their kids can be. And their happy, health, wealthy, long-lived kids will little lament the loss of their backwards ancestral codes.</i> I find it funny that supposedly godless types have some belief in a "<a href="http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/11/how-dawkins-got-pwned-part-7.html" rel="nofollow">zeitgeist</a>" that must be on their sides. By the standards of Haidt I suppose I would be a liberal, or perhaps more liberal than liberal with an <a href="http://entitledtoanopinion.wordpress.com/2007/09/12/were-the-stupid-party-theyre-the-evil-party/" rel="nofollow">even more reduced set of moral intuitions</a>. At the same time I recognize it is entirely possible that everything I cherish is doomed and that human history and progress are <a href="http://entitledtoanopinion.wordpress.com/2007/11/19/absurd/" rel="nofollow">absurd</a>. What to me is an plausible explanation of why liberalism will ultimately be defeated by illiberalism is found in <a href="http://www.newamerica.net/publications/articles/2006/the_return_of_patriarchy" rel="nofollow">The Return of Patriarchy</a>. I also discussed that a bit in the Marginal Revolution thread <a href="http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2007/06/defeat-the-mode.html" rel="nofollow">Defeat the modernity</a>. I agree with a different Edge contributor on morality.

Why not just say that a more thoroughly liberal calibration of the moral sense will deliver a huge list of incredibly attractive goods for everyone in the world, and leave it at that?
Illiberal people may not find those goods attractive.

If some can’t be persuaded to care about those goods, then their kids can be. And their happy, health, wealthy, long-lived kids will little lament the loss of their backwards ancestral codes.
I find it funny that supposedly godless types have some belief in a “zeitgeist” that must be on their sides. By the standards of Haidt I suppose I would be a liberal, or perhaps more liberal than liberal with an even more reduced set of moral intuitions. At the same time I recognize it is entirely possible that everything I cherish is doomed and that human history and progress are absurd. What to me is an plausible explanation of why liberalism will ultimately be defeated by illiberalism is found in The Return of Patriarchy. I also discussed that a bit in the Marginal Revolution thread Defeat the modernity.

]]> By: TGGP http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11368 TGGP Wed, 16 Jan 2008 04:11:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11368 I agree with a <a href="http://entitledtoanopinion.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/first-post-of-2008/" rel="nofollow">different</a> Edge contributor on morality. <i>Why not just say that a more thoroughly liberal calibration of the moral sense will deliver a huge list of incredibly attractive goods for everyone in the world, and leave it at that?</i> Illiberal people may not find those goods attractive. <i>If some can’t be persuaded to care about those goods, then their kids can be. And their happy, health, wealthy, long-lived kids will little lament the loss of their backwards ancestral codes.</i> I find it funny that supposedly godless types have some belief in a "<a href="http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/11/how-dawkins-got-pwned-part-7.html" rel="nofollow">zeitgeist</a>" that must be on their sides. By the standards of Haidt I suppose I would be a liberal, or perhaps more liberal than liberal with an <a href="http://entitledtoanopinion.wordpress.com/2007/09/12/were-the-stupid-party-theyre-the-evil-party/" rel="nofollow">even more reduced set of moral intuitions</a>. At the same time I recognize it is entirely possible that everything I cherish is doomed and that human history and progress are <a href="http://entitledtoanopinion.wordpress.com/2007/11/19/absurd/" rel="nofollow">absurd</a>. What to me is an plausible explanation of why liberalism will ultimately be defeated by illiberalism is found in <a href="http://www.newamerica.net/publications/articles/2006/the_return_of_patriarchy" rel="nofollow">The Return of Patriarchy</a>. I also discussed that a bit in the Marginal Revolution thread <a href="http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2007/06/defeat-the-mode.html" rel="nofollow">Defeat the modernity</a>. I agree with a different Edge contributor on morality.

Why not just say that a more thoroughly liberal calibration of the moral sense will deliver a huge list of incredibly attractive goods for everyone in the world, and leave it at that?
Illiberal people may not find those goods attractive.

If some can’t be persuaded to care about those goods, then their kids can be. And their happy, health, wealthy, long-lived kids will little lament the loss of their backwards ancestral codes.
I find it funny that supposedly godless types have some belief in a “zeitgeist” that must be on their sides. By the standards of Haidt I suppose I would be a liberal, or perhaps more liberal than liberal with an even more reduced set of moral intuitions. At the same time I recognize it is entirely possible that everything I cherish is doomed and that human history and progress are absurd. What to me is an plausible explanation of why liberalism will ultimately be defeated by illiberalism is found in The Return of Patriarchy. I also discussed that a bit in the Marginal Revolution thread Defeat the modernity.

]]> By: Bill Ganzel http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11350 Bill Ganzel Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:20:48 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11350 Fascinating article and replies. For what it's worth, there is a free, non-profit educational web site that has several full interviews with Dr. Norman Borlaug about his work in agriculture. Go to http://www.livinghistoryfarm.org and click on the "Media Resouces" for video podcasts of his interviews. Or go to the "Farming in the 50s-60s" section and click on the "Crops" subsection to see longer articles about the history and debate about the Green Revolution. Again, it's totally free and non-profit. Fascinating article and replies. For what it’s worth, there is a free, non-profit educational web site that has several full interviews with Dr. Norman Borlaug about his work in agriculture. Go to http://www.livinghistoryfarm.org and click on the “Media Resouces” for video podcasts of his interviews. Or go to the “Farming in the 50s-60s” section and click on the “Crops” subsection to see longer articles about the history and debate about the Green Revolution. Again, it’s totally free and non-profit.

]]> By: Bill Ganzel http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11367 Bill Ganzel Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:20:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11367 Fascinating article and replies. For what it's worth, there is a free, non-profit educational web site that has several full interviews with Dr. Norman Borlaug about his work in agriculture. Go to http://www.livinghistoryfarm.org and click on the "Media Resouces" for video podcasts of his interviews. Or go to the "Farming in the 50s-60s" section and click on the "Crops" subsection to see longer articles about the history and debate about the Green Revolution. Again, it's totally free and non-profit. Fascinating article and replies. For what it’s worth, there is a free, non-profit educational web site that has several full interviews with Dr. Norman Borlaug about his work in agriculture. Go to http://www.livinghistoryfarm.org and click on the “Media Resouces” for video podcasts of his interviews. Or go to the “Farming in the 50s-60s” section and click on the “Crops” subsection to see longer articles about the history and debate about the Green Revolution. Again, it’s totally free and non-profit.

]]> By: alphie http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11349 alphie Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:19:55 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2008/01/13/pinker-on-the-moral-sense/#comment-11349 Marx wasn't a "moralizer," he offered practical advice: The rich band together...the poor should, too. Marx wasn’t a “moralizer,” he offered practical advice:

The rich band together…the poor should, too.

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