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	<title>Comments on: Guest Workers and The Ultimate Liberal Aim</title>
	<atom:link href="http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/</link>
	<description>The Sweet Release of Reason</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 20:28:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: FrankV</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11265</link>
		<dc:creator>FrankV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 14:56:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11265</guid>
		<description>The American labor market is remarkably dynamic, even during a downturn. Each month, millions of new jobs are created as entrepreneurs start new companies and existing firms hire new workers. Also, millions of jobs also disappear as uncompetitive firms go out of business and existing companies let workers go. The recession has already driven up the rate of unemployment and the number of layoffs, but it hasn&#039;t negatively affected payday loans.  Even though the number of people that lose their jobs due to massive job cuts, the demand for payday loans and advance lending has actually remained the same – in fact, it has gone up.  It isn&#039;t really a consolation; the unemployment rate is climbing worldwide, and climbing to levels that are the highest they’ve been since before World War 2. That isn&#039;t a problem any amount of &lt;a href=&quot;http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/2009/02/03/payday-loans-unemployment/ &quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;payday loans&lt;/a&gt; are going to fix.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The American labor market is remarkably dynamic, even during a downturn. Each month, millions of new jobs are created as entrepreneurs start new companies and existing firms hire new workers. Also, millions of jobs also disappear as uncompetitive firms go out of business and existing companies let workers go. The recession has already driven up the rate of unemployment and the number of layoffs, but it hasn&#39;t negatively affected payday loans.  Even though the number of people that lose their jobs due to massive job cuts, the demand for payday loans and advance lending has actually remained the same – in fact, it has gone up.  It isn&#39;t really a consolation; the unemployment rate is climbing worldwide, and climbing to levels that are the highest they’ve been since before World War 2. That isn&#39;t a problem any amount of <a href="http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/2009/02/03/payday-loans-unemployment/ " rel="nofollow">payday loans</a> are going to fix.</p>
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		<title>By: FrankV</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11264</link>
		<dc:creator>FrankV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 06:56:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11264</guid>
		<description>The American labor market is remarkably dynamic, even during a downturn. Each month, millions of new jobs are created as entrepreneurs start new companies and existing firms hire new workers. Also, millions of jobs also disappear as uncompetitive firms go out of business and existing companies let workers go. The recession has already driven up the rate of unemployment and the number of layoffs, but it hasn&#039;t negatively affected payday loans.  Even though the number of people that lose their jobs due to massive job cuts, the demand for payday loans and advance lending has actually remained the same – in fact, it has gone up.  It isn&#039;t really a consolation; the unemployment rate is climbing worldwide, and climbing to levels that are the highest they’ve been since before World War 2. That isn&#039;t a problem any amount of &lt;a href=&quot;http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/2009/02/03/payday-loans-unemployment/ &quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;payday loans&lt;/a&gt; are going to fix.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The American labor market is remarkably dynamic, even during a downturn. Each month, millions of new jobs are created as entrepreneurs start new companies and existing firms hire new workers. Also, millions of jobs also disappear as uncompetitive firms go out of business and existing companies let workers go. The recession has already driven up the rate of unemployment and the number of layoffs, but it hasn&#39;t negatively affected payday loans.  Even though the number of people that lose their jobs due to massive job cuts, the demand for payday loans and advance lending has actually remained the same – in fact, it has gone up.  It isn&#39;t really a consolation; the unemployment rate is climbing worldwide, and climbing to levels that are the highest they’ve been since before World War 2. That isn&#39;t a problem any amount of <a href="http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog/2009/02/03/payday-loans-unemployment/ " rel="nofollow">payday loans</a> are going to fix.</p>
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		<title>By: Club Troppo &#187; The rise of welfare feudalism?</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11263</link>
		<dc:creator>Club Troppo &#187; The rise of welfare feudalism?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 23:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11263</guid>
		<description>[...] Will&#8217;s solution to is to allow foreign workers access to the labour market, but deny them access to welfare entitlements. And if that isn&#8217;t possible, then he argues that the next best solution is to promote illegal immigration. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Will&#8217;s solution to is to allow foreign workers access to the labour market, but deny them access to welfare entitlements. And if that isn&#8217;t possible, then he argues that the next best solution is to promote illegal immigration. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: bjk</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11262</link>
		<dc:creator>bjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11262</guid>
		<description>Wouldn&#039;t the ultimate liberal aim be better served by selling US citizenship rather than through guest workers or immigration? Let&#039;s say you auctioned off say citizenship rights equal to 1% of the US each year, so 3 million passports. In turn you got $100000 per passport, which doesn&#039;t sound crazy considering all the wealthy people who want to live here. In fact, the cost would probably be much higher. If my math is right, that&#039;s $300 billion per year, which buys alot of enchiladas. If you share just 1/3 of that with the displaced immigrants who would have taken those immigration slots, the would-be guest workers or immigrants would be much better off. If libertarians see nations as clubs, why not auction off citizenship like clubs do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t the ultimate liberal aim be better served by selling US citizenship rather than through guest workers or immigration? Let&#8217;s say you auctioned off say citizenship rights equal to 1% of the US each year, so 3 million passports. In turn you got $100000 per passport, which doesn&#8217;t sound crazy considering all the wealthy people who want to live here. In fact, the cost would probably be much higher. If my math is right, that&#8217;s $300 billion per year, which buys alot of enchiladas. If you share just 1/3 of that with the displaced immigrants who would have taken those immigration slots, the would-be guest workers or immigrants would be much better off. If libertarians see nations as clubs, why not auction off citizenship like clubs do?</p>
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		<title>By: bjk</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11283</link>
		<dc:creator>bjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11283</guid>
		<description>Wouldn&#039;t the ultimate liberal aim be better served by selling US citizenship rather than through guest workers or immigration? Let&#039;s say you auctioned off say citizenship rights equal to 1% of the US each year, so 3 million passports. In turn you got $100000 per passport, which doesn&#039;t sound crazy considering all the wealthy people who want to live here. In fact, the cost would probably be much higher. If my math is right, that&#039;s $300 billion per year, which buys alot of enchiladas. If you share just 1/3 of that with the displaced immigrants who would have taken those immigration slots, the would-be guest workers or immigrants would be much better off. If libertarians see nations as clubs, why not auction off citizenship like clubs do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t the ultimate liberal aim be better served by selling US citizenship rather than through guest workers or immigration? Let&#8217;s say you auctioned off say citizenship rights equal to 1% of the US each year, so 3 million passports. In turn you got $100000 per passport, which doesn&#8217;t sound crazy considering all the wealthy people who want to live here. In fact, the cost would probably be much higher. If my math is right, that&#8217;s $300 billion per year, which buys alot of enchiladas. If you share just 1/3 of that with the displaced immigrants who would have taken those immigration slots, the would-be guest workers or immigrants would be much better off. If libertarians see nations as clubs, why not auction off citizenship like clubs do?</p>
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		<title>By: Micha Ghertner</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11261</link>
		<dc:creator>Micha Ghertner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 22:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11261</guid>
		<description>I like how &quot;MaryJ&quot; accuses libertarians of living in a fantasy world while &lt;i&gt;in the very same post&lt;/i&gt; worrying terribly about the well-documented problem of Raul, Miguel and Julio down by the Home Depot, getting their little militia together like Latin versions of Jim Gilchrist. Um, yeah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like how &#8220;MaryJ&#8221; accuses libertarians of living in a fantasy world while <i>in the very same post</i> worrying terribly about the well-documented problem of Raul, Miguel and Julio down by the Home Depot, getting their little militia together like Latin versions of Jim Gilchrist. Um, yeah.</p>
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		<title>By: Micha Ghertner</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11275</link>
		<dc:creator>Micha Ghertner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 22:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11275</guid>
		<description>I like how &quot;MaryJ&quot; accuses libertarians of living in a fantasy world while &lt;i&gt;in the very same post&lt;/i&gt; worrying terribly about the well-documented problem of Raul, Miguel and Julio down by the Home Depot, getting their little militia together like Latin versions of Jim Gilchrist. Um, yeah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like how &#8220;MaryJ&#8221; accuses libertarians of living in a fantasy world while <i>in the very same post</i> worrying terribly about the well-documented problem of Raul, Miguel and Julio down by the Home Depot, getting their little militia together like Latin versions of Jim Gilchrist. Um, yeah.</p>
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		<title>By: MaryJ</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11260</link>
		<dc:creator>MaryJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 04:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11260</guid>
		<description>From Mr. Wilkinson&#039;s comentary called &quot;Marketplace:

&quot;Mexico’s GDP per capita is about what Poland’s was in 2004. That was the year Poland became a part of the E.U., and started sending a large flow of newly-legal migrant workers to a much wealthier Britain. This neither increased British unemployment, nor overtaxed social services. (EDITORIAL comment: These are both big fat lies, but whatever.)

&quot;It’s been a boon to both the British and the Polish economies, and a higher percentage of Polish workers now circulate back home. Romania and Bulgaria are even poorer than Mexico, but they are now set to integrate their labor markets with the rest of the E.U. in seven years.&quot;

The problem is, Mr. Wilkinson, which you so conveniently &quot;forgot&quot; to mention, is that indigenous Britons are leaving their homeland -- where their ancestors have lived for thousands of years -- at the rate of 500K a year, most of them because of the ill effects of massive, inappropriate, and deeply unsettling immigration from a vast plethora of competing non-indigenous, non-compatible cultures. And they are taking their skills and their wealth and their tax base with them. Ultimately this will cause the British economy to collapse, as those replacing the fleeing indigenous population are not as educated, wealthy or law-abiding as the natives. Their number one destination is Australia -- the one Western nation left in the world that has strict immigration policies, and which also offers an approximation of the fleeing Britons&#039;  native Anglo-Saxon culture and values.. Your libertarian fantasies are not going to work in a world where First Worlders will simply flee their native lands for ones that are not overwhelmed by immigration anarchy and cultural displacement. If your fantasy world is indeed so much &quot;richer and freer&quot; as you claim, why are all those Brits fleeing the homeland their ancestors have occupied for thousands of years? Closer to home, why are native-born Californians running away from the &quot;richness&quot; of massive immigration at the rate of 300K per year?

Massive immigration has also resulted, in both Britain and the US, in LESS freedom, not more, with the introduction of a huge police state to control ever-burgeoning crime rates (Britain has the largest per capita number of CCTV cameras in the world, California has draconian &quot;three strikes and you&#039;re out&quot; laws), totalitarian &quot;hate speech&quot; and &quot;anti-racism&quot; laws that have virulently suppressed native culture and traditions, and Orwellian mandatory &quot;diversity training&quot; classes that resemble nothing so much as Maoist self-improvement sessions.

Also I find it rather amusing that a &quot;libertarian&quot; is using the European Union -- a massive, socialistic, bureaucratic state controlled by unelected elites, which is becoming progressively more totalitarian as time goes by -- as a model exemplar for &quot;freedom.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Mr. Wilkinson&#8217;s comentary called &#8220;Marketplace:</p>
<p>&#8220;Mexico’s GDP per capita is about what Poland’s was in 2004. That was the year Poland became a part of the E.U., and started sending a large flow of newly-legal migrant workers to a much wealthier Britain. This neither increased British unemployment, nor overtaxed social services. (EDITORIAL comment: These are both big fat lies, but whatever.)</p>
<p>&#8220;It’s been a boon to both the British and the Polish economies, and a higher percentage of Polish workers now circulate back home. Romania and Bulgaria are even poorer than Mexico, but they are now set to integrate their labor markets with the rest of the E.U. in seven years.&#8221;</p>
<p>The problem is, Mr. Wilkinson, which you so conveniently &#8220;forgot&#8221; to mention, is that indigenous Britons are leaving their homeland &#8212; where their ancestors have lived for thousands of years &#8212; at the rate of 500K a year, most of them because of the ill effects of massive, inappropriate, and deeply unsettling immigration from a vast plethora of competing non-indigenous, non-compatible cultures. And they are taking their skills and their wealth and their tax base with them. Ultimately this will cause the British economy to collapse, as those replacing the fleeing indigenous population are not as educated, wealthy or law-abiding as the natives. Their number one destination is Australia &#8212; the one Western nation left in the world that has strict immigration policies, and which also offers an approximation of the fleeing Britons&#8217;  native Anglo-Saxon culture and values.. Your libertarian fantasies are not going to work in a world where First Worlders will simply flee their native lands for ones that are not overwhelmed by immigration anarchy and cultural displacement. If your fantasy world is indeed so much &#8220;richer and freer&#8221; as you claim, why are all those Brits fleeing the homeland their ancestors have occupied for thousands of years? Closer to home, why are native-born Californians running away from the &#8220;richness&#8221; of massive immigration at the rate of 300K per year?</p>
<p>Massive immigration has also resulted, in both Britain and the US, in LESS freedom, not more, with the introduction of a huge police state to control ever-burgeoning crime rates (Britain has the largest per capita number of CCTV cameras in the world, California has draconian &#8220;three strikes and you&#8217;re out&#8221; laws), totalitarian &#8220;hate speech&#8221; and &#8220;anti-racism&#8221; laws that have virulently suppressed native culture and traditions, and Orwellian mandatory &#8220;diversity training&#8221; classes that resemble nothing so much as Maoist self-improvement sessions.</p>
<p>Also I find it rather amusing that a &#8220;libertarian&#8221; is using the European Union &#8212; a massive, socialistic, bureaucratic state controlled by unelected elites, which is becoming progressively more totalitarian as time goes by &#8212; as a model exemplar for &#8220;freedom.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: MaryJ</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11274</link>
		<dc:creator>MaryJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 04:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11274</guid>
		<description>From Mr. Wilkinson&#039;s comentary called &quot;Marketplace:

&quot;Mexico’s GDP per capita is about what Poland’s was in 2004. That was the year Poland became a part of the E.U., and started sending a large flow of newly-legal migrant workers to a much wealthier Britain. This neither increased British unemployment, nor overtaxed social services. (EDITORIAL comment: These are both big fat lies, but whatever.)

&quot;It’s been a boon to both the British and the Polish economies, and a higher percentage of Polish workers now circulate back home. Romania and Bulgaria are even poorer than Mexico, but they are now set to integrate their labor markets with the rest of the E.U. in seven years.&quot;

The problem is, Mr. Wilkinson, which you so conveniently &quot;forgot&quot; to mention, is that indigenous Britons are leaving their homeland -- where their ancestors have lived for thousands of years -- at the rate of 500K a year, most of them because of the ill effects of massive, inappropriate, and deeply unsettling immigration from a vast plethora of competing non-indigenous, non-compatible cultures. And they are taking their skills and their wealth and their tax base with them. Ultimately this will cause the British economy to collapse, as those replacing the fleeing indigenous population are not as educated, wealthy or law-abiding as the natives. Their number one destination is Australia -- the one Western nation left in the world that has strict immigration policies, and which also offers an approximation of the fleeing Britons&#039;  native Anglo-Saxon culture and values.. Your libertarian fantasies are not going to work in a world where First Worlders will simply flee their native lands for ones that are not overwhelmed by immigration anarchy and cultural displacement. If your fantasy world is indeed so much &quot;richer and freer&quot; as you claim, why are all those Brits fleeing the homeland their ancestors have occupied for thousands of years? Closer to home, why are native-born Californians running away from the &quot;richness&quot; of massive immigration at the rate of 300K per year?

Massive immigration has also resulted, in both Britain and the US, in LESS freedom, not more, with the introduction of a huge police state to control ever-burgeoning crime rates (Britain has the largest per capita number of CCTV cameras in the world, California has draconian &quot;three strikes and you&#039;re out&quot; laws), totalitarian &quot;hate speech&quot; and &quot;anti-racism&quot; laws that have virulently suppressed native culture and traditions, and Orwellian mandatory &quot;diversity training&quot; classes that resemble nothing so much as Maoist self-improvement sessions.

Also I find it rather amusing that a &quot;libertarian&quot; is using the European Union -- a massive, socialistic, bureaucratic state controlled by unelected elites, which is becoming progressively more totalitarian as time goes by -- as a model exemplar for &quot;freedom.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Mr. Wilkinson&#8217;s comentary called &#8220;Marketplace:</p>
<p>&#8220;Mexico’s GDP per capita is about what Poland’s was in 2004. That was the year Poland became a part of the E.U., and started sending a large flow of newly-legal migrant workers to a much wealthier Britain. This neither increased British unemployment, nor overtaxed social services. (EDITORIAL comment: These are both big fat lies, but whatever.)</p>
<p>&#8220;It’s been a boon to both the British and the Polish economies, and a higher percentage of Polish workers now circulate back home. Romania and Bulgaria are even poorer than Mexico, but they are now set to integrate their labor markets with the rest of the E.U. in seven years.&#8221;</p>
<p>The problem is, Mr. Wilkinson, which you so conveniently &#8220;forgot&#8221; to mention, is that indigenous Britons are leaving their homeland &#8212; where their ancestors have lived for thousands of years &#8212; at the rate of 500K a year, most of them because of the ill effects of massive, inappropriate, and deeply unsettling immigration from a vast plethora of competing non-indigenous, non-compatible cultures. And they are taking their skills and their wealth and their tax base with them. Ultimately this will cause the British economy to collapse, as those replacing the fleeing indigenous population are not as educated, wealthy or law-abiding as the natives. Their number one destination is Australia &#8212; the one Western nation left in the world that has strict immigration policies, and which also offers an approximation of the fleeing Britons&#8217;  native Anglo-Saxon culture and values.. Your libertarian fantasies are not going to work in a world where First Worlders will simply flee their native lands for ones that are not overwhelmed by immigration anarchy and cultural displacement. If your fantasy world is indeed so much &#8220;richer and freer&#8221; as you claim, why are all those Brits fleeing the homeland their ancestors have occupied for thousands of years? Closer to home, why are native-born Californians running away from the &#8220;richness&#8221; of massive immigration at the rate of 300K per year?</p>
<p>Massive immigration has also resulted, in both Britain and the US, in LESS freedom, not more, with the introduction of a huge police state to control ever-burgeoning crime rates (Britain has the largest per capita number of CCTV cameras in the world, California has draconian &#8220;three strikes and you&#8217;re out&#8221; laws), totalitarian &#8220;hate speech&#8221; and &#8220;anti-racism&#8221; laws that have virulently suppressed native culture and traditions, and Orwellian mandatory &#8220;diversity training&#8221; classes that resemble nothing so much as Maoist self-improvement sessions.</p>
<p>Also I find it rather amusing that a &#8220;libertarian&#8221; is using the European Union &#8212; a massive, socialistic, bureaucratic state controlled by unelected elites, which is becoming progressively more totalitarian as time goes by &#8212; as a model exemplar for &#8220;freedom.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: MaryJ</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11259</link>
		<dc:creator>MaryJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 02:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11259</guid>
		<description>Some questions: In a democracy, how do you keep masses of uncontrolled immigrants from voting themselves massive amounts of welfare, at the expense of the native born taxpayer? (Already happening in many parts of the US where povery stricken illegals are basically allowed to vote, like California.) How do you keep masses of uncontrolled immigrants from forming an army that will kick us all out of our homes and take our property so their own people can enjoy them? This posting has convinced me that the libertarian open borders lunatics are just as crazy as the kumbaya-singing, &quot;can&#039;t we all get along&quot; left wing multiculturalist lunatics. Both are utopia-driven crazies living in a fantasy world where human nature can be &quot;remade&quot; -- when the totalitarian experiences of the 20th Century has proven the exact opposite. Moreover, it is not in the least bit &quot;racist&quot; to want to preserve native languages, tradiitons and cultures. With open borders, whoever has the biggest population totals will overwhelm and destroy smaller native cultures. I&#039;m not interested in living in a world in which the only two cultures left standing are Subcontintental and Chinese. What of the English, the Danes, the Dutch, the Tongans,the Mauritians, etc.? Do they have no right to survive as as peoples? Libertarians, like Marxists, both erroneously believe that human beings are nothing but economic units. History has proven both of them massively wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some questions: In a democracy, how do you keep masses of uncontrolled immigrants from voting themselves massive amounts of welfare, at the expense of the native born taxpayer? (Already happening in many parts of the US where povery stricken illegals are basically allowed to vote, like California.) How do you keep masses of uncontrolled immigrants from forming an army that will kick us all out of our homes and take our property so their own people can enjoy them? This posting has convinced me that the libertarian open borders lunatics are just as crazy as the kumbaya-singing, &#8220;can&#8217;t we all get along&#8221; left wing multiculturalist lunatics. Both are utopia-driven crazies living in a fantasy world where human nature can be &#8220;remade&#8221; &#8212; when the totalitarian experiences of the 20th Century has proven the exact opposite. Moreover, it is not in the least bit &#8220;racist&#8221; to want to preserve native languages, tradiitons and cultures. With open borders, whoever has the biggest population totals will overwhelm and destroy smaller native cultures. I&#8217;m not interested in living in a world in which the only two cultures left standing are Subcontintental and Chinese. What of the English, the Danes, the Dutch, the Tongans,the Mauritians, etc.? Do they have no right to survive as as peoples? Libertarians, like Marxists, both erroneously believe that human beings are nothing but economic units. History has proven both of them massively wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: MaryJ</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11273</link>
		<dc:creator>MaryJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 02:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11273</guid>
		<description>Some questions: In a democracy, how do you keep masses of uncontrolled immigrants from voting themselves massive amounts of welfare, at the expense of the native born taxpayer? (Already happening in many parts of the US where povery stricken illegals are basically allowed to vote, like California.) How do you keep masses of uncontrolled immigrants from forming an army that will kick us all out of our homes and take our property so their own people can enjoy them? This posting has convinced me that the libertarian open borders lunatics are just as crazy as the kumbaya-singing, &quot;can&#039;t we all get along&quot; left wing multiculturalist lunatics. Both are utopia-driven crazies living in a fantasy world where human nature can be &quot;remade&quot; -- when the totalitarian experiences of the 20th Century has proven the exact opposite. Moreover, it is not in the least bit &quot;racist&quot; to want to preserve native languages, tradiitons and cultures. With open borders, whoever has the biggest population totals will overwhelm and destroy smaller native cultures. I&#039;m not interested in living in a world in which the only two cultures left standing are Subcontintental and Chinese. What of the English, the Danes, the Dutch, the Tongans,the Mauritians, etc.? Do they have no right to survive as as peoples? Libertarians, like Marxists, both erroneously believe that human beings are nothing but economic units. History has proven both of them massively wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some questions: In a democracy, how do you keep masses of uncontrolled immigrants from voting themselves massive amounts of welfare, at the expense of the native born taxpayer? (Already happening in many parts of the US where povery stricken illegals are basically allowed to vote, like California.) How do you keep masses of uncontrolled immigrants from forming an army that will kick us all out of our homes and take our property so their own people can enjoy them? This posting has convinced me that the libertarian open borders lunatics are just as crazy as the kumbaya-singing, &#8220;can&#8217;t we all get along&#8221; left wing multiculturalist lunatics. Both are utopia-driven crazies living in a fantasy world where human nature can be &#8220;remade&#8221; &#8212; when the totalitarian experiences of the 20th Century has proven the exact opposite. Moreover, it is not in the least bit &#8220;racist&#8221; to want to preserve native languages, tradiitons and cultures. With open borders, whoever has the biggest population totals will overwhelm and destroy smaller native cultures. I&#8217;m not interested in living in a world in which the only two cultures left standing are Subcontintental and Chinese. What of the English, the Danes, the Dutch, the Tongans,the Mauritians, etc.? Do they have no right to survive as as peoples? Libertarians, like Marxists, both erroneously believe that human beings are nothing but economic units. History has proven both of them massively wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred S.</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11258</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 08:36:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11258</guid>
		<description>Well, you&#039;d have to specify what &quot;empirical evidence&quot; you&#039;re talking about. To my knowledge, no one has suggested that massive low-skill, Latin American immigration is conducive to social cohesion (Prof. Putnam&#039;s recent study says precisely the opposite) and the arguments that illegal immigrants committ crime at rates lower than the American average are highly dubious. If cultural continuity has &quot;racial elements&quot;, by all means &quot;unpack&quot; it; don&#039;t jump immediately to the slur.

 The &quot;racism&quot; charged isn&#039;t disliked because it &quot;stings&quot;; it&#039;s application is resented because, in modern-day America, it has the same relationship to reasoned debate as the atomic bomb has to conventional warfare. It is an ad hominem attack, which bypasses the merits of the interlocutor&#039;s arguments and proclaims to an audience &quot;I have looked into my opponent&#039;s soul, perfectly understood his motivations, and have decided that he is beyond the pale of civilised discourse; under no circumstances should anything he says be considered&quot;.

 Because this slur tends to be unanswearble, has enormous deterrent effect (no one wants to be labelled a racist) and helps the user to convince himself that he is battling unadulterated evil rather than engaging in reasoned discourse, it takes some discipline and no small amount of good faith not to engage it at any and all opportunities. Both these qualities are in short supply.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, you&#8217;d have to specify what &#8220;empirical evidence&#8221; you&#8217;re talking about. To my knowledge, no one has suggested that massive low-skill, Latin American immigration is conducive to social cohesion (Prof. Putnam&#8217;s recent study says precisely the opposite) and the arguments that illegal immigrants committ crime at rates lower than the American average are highly dubious. If cultural continuity has &#8220;racial elements&#8221;, by all means &#8220;unpack&#8221; it; don&#8217;t jump immediately to the slur.</p>
<p> The &#8220;racism&#8221; charged isn&#8217;t disliked because it &#8220;stings&#8221;; it&#8217;s application is resented because, in modern-day America, it has the same relationship to reasoned debate as the atomic bomb has to conventional warfare. It is an ad hominem attack, which bypasses the merits of the interlocutor&#8217;s arguments and proclaims to an audience &#8220;I have looked into my opponent&#8217;s soul, perfectly understood his motivations, and have decided that he is beyond the pale of civilised discourse; under no circumstances should anything he says be considered&#8221;.</p>
<p> Because this slur tends to be unanswearble, has enormous deterrent effect (no one wants to be labelled a racist) and helps the user to convince himself that he is battling unadulterated evil rather than engaging in reasoned discourse, it takes some discipline and no small amount of good faith not to engage it at any and all opportunities. Both these qualities are in short supply.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred S.</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11272</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 08:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11272</guid>
		<description>Well, you&#039;d have to specify what &quot;empirical evidence&quot; you&#039;re talking about. To my knowledge, no one has suggested that massive low-skill, Latin American immigration is conducive to social cohesion (Prof. Putnam&#039;s recent study says precisely the opposite) and the arguments that illegal immigrants committ crime at rates lower than the American average are highly dubious. If cultural continuity has &quot;racial elements&quot;, by all means &quot;unpack&quot; it; don&#039;t jump immediately to the slur.

 The &quot;racism&quot; charged isn&#039;t disliked because it &quot;stings&quot;; it&#039;s application is resented because, in modern-day America, it has the same relationship to reasoned debate as the atomic bomb has to conventional warfare. It is an ad hominem attack, which bypasses the merits of the interlocutor&#039;s arguments and proclaims to an audience &quot;I have looked into my opponent&#039;s soul, perfectly understood his motivations, and have decided that he is beyond the pale of civilised discourse; under no circumstances should anything he says be considered&quot;.

 Because this slur tends to be unanswearble, has enormous deterrent effect (no one wants to be labelled a racist) and helps the user to convince himself that he is battling unadulterated evil rather than engaging in reasoned discourse, it takes some discipline and no small amount of good faith not to engage it at any and all opportunities. Both these qualities are in short supply.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, you&#8217;d have to specify what &#8220;empirical evidence&#8221; you&#8217;re talking about. To my knowledge, no one has suggested that massive low-skill, Latin American immigration is conducive to social cohesion (Prof. Putnam&#8217;s recent study says precisely the opposite) and the arguments that illegal immigrants committ crime at rates lower than the American average are highly dubious. If cultural continuity has &#8220;racial elements&#8221;, by all means &#8220;unpack&#8221; it; don&#8217;t jump immediately to the slur.</p>
<p> The &#8220;racism&#8221; charged isn&#8217;t disliked because it &#8220;stings&#8221;; it&#8217;s application is resented because, in modern-day America, it has the same relationship to reasoned debate as the atomic bomb has to conventional warfare. It is an ad hominem attack, which bypasses the merits of the interlocutor&#8217;s arguments and proclaims to an audience &#8220;I have looked into my opponent&#8217;s soul, perfectly understood his motivations, and have decided that he is beyond the pale of civilised discourse; under no circumstances should anything he says be considered&#8221;.</p>
<p> Because this slur tends to be unanswearble, has enormous deterrent effect (no one wants to be labelled a racist) and helps the user to convince himself that he is battling unadulterated evil rather than engaging in reasoned discourse, it takes some discipline and no small amount of good faith not to engage it at any and all opportunities. Both these qualities are in short supply.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11257</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:52:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11257</guid>
		<description>Fred, The racism point invariably comes up in part because many immigration opponents remain completely unmoved by empirical evidence regarding things like crime, social cohesion, etc. favorable to higher rates of immigration. And notions like &quot;cultural continuity&quot; when unpacked very often contain racial elements. Immigration foes don&#039;t like the charge of racism, because it stings, but in my experience it often does apply, does motivate opposition to immigration, and in those cases, it is not at all a facile to point it out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fred, The racism point invariably comes up in part because many immigration opponents remain completely unmoved by empirical evidence regarding things like crime, social cohesion, etc. favorable to higher rates of immigration. And notions like &#8220;cultural continuity&#8221; when unpacked very often contain racial elements. Immigration foes don&#8217;t like the charge of racism, because it stings, but in my experience it often does apply, does motivate opposition to immigration, and in those cases, it is not at all a facile to point it out.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11266</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2007/12/29/guest-workers-and-the-ultimate-liberal-aim/#comment-11266</guid>
		<description>Fred, The racism point invariably comes up in part because many immigration opponents remain completely unmoved by empirical evidence regarding things like crime, social cohesion, etc. favorable to higher rates of immigration. And notions like &quot;cultural continuity&quot; when unpacked very often contain racial elements. Immigration foes don&#039;t like the charge of racism, because it stings, but in my experience it often does apply, does motivate opposition to immigration, and in those cases, it is not at all a facile to point it out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fred, The racism point invariably comes up in part because many immigration opponents remain completely unmoved by empirical evidence regarding things like crime, social cohesion, etc. favorable to higher rates of immigration. And notions like &#8220;cultural continuity&#8221; when unpacked very often contain racial elements. Immigration foes don&#8217;t like the charge of racism, because it stings, but in my experience it often does apply, does motivate opposition to immigration, and in those cases, it is not at all a facile to point it out.</p>
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