Comments on: Herbert Spencer Clues Explosion http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/12/19/herbert-spencer-clues-explosion/ The Sweet Release of Reason Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:11:50 +0000 hourly 1 By: xorgnz http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/12/19/herbert-spencer-clues-explosion/#comment-9365 xorgnz Wed, 03 Jan 2007 12:34:40 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/12/19/herbert-spencer-clues-explosion/#comment-9365 Hmm. That characterization of Spencer's conception of happiness ("that it is the gratification produced by the maximal exercise of the several faculties enabled by their degrees of development") sounds fairly similar to Csikszentmihalyi's characterization of the flow experience; that enjoyment (differentiated from pleasure as an emotionally fulfilling experience leading to happiness) is brought about through exertion of our skills in response to challenges that meet our particular skill level. Too low challenges lead to boredom, too high to anxiety, but challenges just right lead to flow (and thus a particular form of enjoyment). I have to say it's a fairly compelling idea; it's not surprising it's been around for a while. If you haven't read it already, you might find Csikszentmihalyi's work interesting - there's a rough intro on wikipedia, and his books will be in a nearby library. The data he's gathered from his studies over the years provide pretty strong evidence for this particular way of achieving happiness.. Ref: Mihaly Csizkszentmihalyi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology) Hmm.

That characterization of Spencer’s conception of happiness (“that it is the gratification produced by the maximal exercise of the several faculties enabled by their degrees of development”) sounds fairly similar to Csikszentmihalyi’s characterization of the flow experience; that enjoyment (differentiated from pleasure as an emotionally fulfilling experience leading to happiness) is brought about through exertion of our skills in response to challenges that meet our particular skill level. Too low challenges lead to boredom, too high to anxiety, but challenges just right lead to flow (and thus a particular form of enjoyment).

I have to say it’s a fairly compelling idea; it’s not surprising it’s been around for a while. If you haven’t read it already, you might find Csikszentmihalyi’s work interesting – there’s a rough intro on wikipedia, and his books will be in a nearby library. The data he’s gathered from his studies over the years provide pretty strong evidence for this particular way of achieving happiness..

Ref:
Mihaly Csizkszentmihalyi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)

]]> By: xorgnz http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/12/19/herbert-spencer-clues-explosion/#comment-9368 xorgnz Wed, 03 Jan 2007 12:34:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/12/19/herbert-spencer-clues-explosion/#comment-9368 Hmm. That characterization of Spencer's conception of happiness ("that it is the gratification produced by the maximal exercise of the several faculties enabled by their degrees of development") sounds fairly similar to Csikszentmihalyi's characterization of the flow experience; that enjoyment (differentiated from pleasure as an emotionally fulfilling experience leading to happiness) is brought about through exertion of our skills in response to challenges that meet our particular skill level. Too low challenges lead to boredom, too high to anxiety, but challenges just right lead to flow (and thus a particular form of enjoyment). I have to say it's a fairly compelling idea; it's not surprising it's been around for a while. If you haven't read it already, you might find Csikszentmihalyi's work interesting - there's a rough intro on wikipedia, and his books will be in a nearby library. The data he's gathered from his studies over the years provide pretty strong evidence for this particular way of achieving happiness.. Ref: Mihaly Csizkszentmihalyi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology) Hmm.

That characterization of Spencer’s conception of happiness (“that it is the gratification produced by the maximal exercise of the several faculties enabled by their degrees of development”) sounds fairly similar to Csikszentmihalyi’s characterization of the flow experience; that enjoyment (differentiated from pleasure as an emotionally fulfilling experience leading to happiness) is brought about through exertion of our skills in response to challenges that meet our particular skill level. Too low challenges lead to boredom, too high to anxiety, but challenges just right lead to flow (and thus a particular form of enjoyment).

I have to say it’s a fairly compelling idea; it’s not surprising it’s been around for a while. If you haven’t read it already, you might find Csikszentmihalyi’s work interesting – there’s a rough intro on wikipedia, and his books will be in a nearby library. The data he’s gathered from his studies over the years provide pretty strong evidence for this particular way of achieving happiness..

Ref:
Mihaly Csizkszentmihalyi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)

]]> By: Lindsey http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/12/19/herbert-spencer-clues-explosion/#comment-9364 Lindsey Mon, 01 Jan 2007 09:49:05 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/12/19/herbert-spencer-clues-explosion/#comment-9364 thought you may want to know should you wish to continue on your studies of Spencer that a new book is soon due out on him: "Herbert Spencer and the Invention of Modern Life" cornell uni, may 2007. I should declare an interest, the author is my PhD supervisor, but is a great scholar of nineteenth century history of political and scientific thought; I could go on but, I'll let Frank Turner do that, as he's much better placed to jduge the book. "A stunning revelation of a personality and thinker about whom even most well informed Victorianists evaluate largely from misinformation. This book presents an entirely new understanding of Spencer. Scholars from a number of fields – philosophy, literature, history, and history of science – will quite simply never be able to think of Spencer as they have before. Wonderfully and persuasively revisionist, backed up by superb research, this will be the book on Spencer for the present and next generation." – Frank M. Turner, Yale University thought you may want to know should you wish to continue on your studies of Spencer that a new book is soon due out on him: “Herbert Spencer and the Invention of Modern Life” cornell uni, may 2007. I should declare an interest, the author is my PhD supervisor, but is a great scholar of nineteenth century history of political and scientific thought; I could go on but, I’ll let Frank Turner do that, as he’s much better placed to jduge the book. “A stunning revelation of a personality and thinker about whom even most well informed Victorianists evaluate largely from misinformation. This book presents an entirely new understanding of Spencer. Scholars from a number of fields – philosophy, literature, history, and history of science – will quite simply never be able to think of Spencer as they have before. Wonderfully and persuasively revisionist, backed up by superb research, this will be the book on Spencer for the present and next generation.” – Frank M. Turner, Yale University

]]> By: Lindsey http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/12/19/herbert-spencer-clues-explosion/#comment-9374 Lindsey Mon, 01 Jan 2007 09:49:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/12/19/herbert-spencer-clues-explosion/#comment-9374 thought you may want to know should you wish to continue on your studies of Spencer that a new book is soon due out on him: "Herbert Spencer and the Invention of Modern Life" cornell uni, may 2007. I should declare an interest, the author is my PhD supervisor, but is a great scholar of nineteenth century history of political and scientific thought; I could go on but, I'll let Frank Turner do that, as he's much better placed to jduge the book. "A stunning revelation of a personality and thinker about whom even most well informed Victorianists evaluate largely from misinformation. This book presents an entirely new understanding of Spencer. Scholars from a number of fields – philosophy, literature, history, and history of science – will quite simply never be able to think of Spencer as they have before. Wonderfully and persuasively revisionist, backed up by superb research, this will be the book on Spencer for the present and next generation." – Frank M. Turner, Yale University thought you may want to know should you wish to continue on your studies of Spencer that a new book is soon due out on him: “Herbert Spencer and the Invention of Modern Life” cornell uni, may 2007. I should declare an interest, the author is my PhD supervisor, but is a great scholar of nineteenth century history of political and scientific thought; I could go on but, I’ll let Frank Turner do that, as he’s much better placed to jduge the book. “A stunning revelation of a personality and thinker about whom even most well informed Victorianists evaluate largely from misinformation. This book presents an entirely new understanding of Spencer. Scholars from a number of fields – philosophy, literature, history, and history of science – will quite simply never be able to think of Spencer as they have before. Wonderfully and persuasively revisionist, backed up by superb research, this will be the book on Spencer for the present and next generation.” – Frank M. Turner, Yale University

]]> By: Matt (a different one) http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/12/19/herbert-spencer-clues-explosion/#comment-9363 Matt (a different one) Sun, 24 Dec 2006 01:53:47 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/12/19/herbert-spencer-clues-explosion/#comment-9363 Will- have you read any of Sidgwick's reviews of Spencer's books? I have to admit that I've read very little Spencer. Between the thrashings given him by Russell and, even more, Sidgwick it didn't seem worth the time. Sidgwick presented him as quite confused and holding very implausible views. Most people who like him (Randy Barnett and others, for example) seem to confirm this when they talk about him. I'm curious if you've read Sidwick's reviews (they have recently been republished in a volume edited, I believe, by Marcus Singer) and what you think of them. Will- have you read any of Sidgwick’s reviews of Spencer’s books? I have to admit that I’ve read very little Spencer. Between the thrashings given him by Russell and, even more, Sidgwick it didn’t seem worth the time. Sidgwick presented him as quite confused and holding very implausible views. Most people who like him (Randy Barnett and others, for example) seem to confirm this when they talk about him. I’m curious if you’ve read Sidwick’s reviews (they have recently been republished in a volume edited, I believe, by Marcus Singer) and what you think of them.

]]> By: Matt (a different one) http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/12/19/herbert-spencer-clues-explosion/#comment-9373 Matt (a different one) Sun, 24 Dec 2006 01:53:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/12/19/herbert-spencer-clues-explosion/#comment-9373 Will- have you read any of Sidgwick's reviews of Spencer's books? I have to admit that I've read very little Spencer. Between the thrashings given him by Russell and, even more, Sidgwick it didn't seem worth the time. Sidgwick presented him as quite confused and holding very implausible views. Most people who like him (Randy Barnett and others, for example) seem to confirm this when they talk about him. I'm curious if you've read Sidwick's reviews (they have recently been republished in a volume edited, I believe, by Marcus Singer) and what you think of them. Will- have you read any of Sidgwick’s reviews of Spencer’s books? I have to admit that I’ve read very little Spencer. Between the thrashings given him by Russell and, even more, Sidgwick it didn’t seem worth the time. Sidgwick presented him as quite confused and holding very implausible views. Most people who like him (Randy Barnett and others, for example) seem to confirm this when they talk about him. I’m curious if you’ve read Sidwick’s reviews (they have recently been republished in a volume edited, I believe, by Marcus Singer) and what you think of them.

]]> By: The Liberty Papers»Blog Archive » The Congruence of Rights and Utility http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/12/19/herbert-spencer-clues-explosion/#comment-9362 The Liberty Papers»Blog Archive » The Congruence of Rights and Utility Sat, 23 Dec 2006 18:55:24 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/12/19/herbert-spencer-clues-explosion/#comment-9362 [...] I borrowed the title from an interesting Will Wilkinson post that begins with a lengthy quote of Herbert Spencer who—according to Wilkinson—was a pluralist utilitarian. Assuming it to be in other respects satisfactory, a rule, principle, or axiom, is valuable only in so far as the words in which it is expressed have a definite meaning. The terms used must be universally accepted in the same sense, otherwise the proposition will be liable to such various constructions, as to lose all claim to the title—a rule. We must therefore take it for granted that when he announced “the greatest happiness to the greatest number” as the canon of social morality, its originator supposed mankind to be unanimous in their definition of “greatest happiness.” [...] [...] I borrowed the title from an interesting Will Wilkinson post that begins with a lengthy quote of Herbert Spencer who—according to Wilkinson—was a pluralist utilitarian. Assuming it to be in other respects satisfactory, a rule, principle, or axiom, is valuable only in so far as the words in which it is expressed have a definite meaning. The terms used must be universally accepted in the same sense, otherwise the proposition will be liable to such various constructions, as to lose all claim to the title—a rule. We must therefore take it for granted that when he announced “the greatest happiness to the greatest number” as the canon of social morality, its originator supposed mankind to be unanimous in their definition of “greatest happiness.” [...]

]]> By: Matt http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/12/19/herbert-spencer-clues-explosion/#comment-9361 Matt Thu, 21 Dec 2006 14:57:47 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/12/19/herbert-spencer-clues-explosion/#comment-9361 Will, I get your point about the "statistically average person." The hard work, then, would involve separating essential and accidental features (sorry, this isn't perfect terminology). For example, there are data that show that religious people tend to be happier than non-religious people, but it would be (I take it) a mistake to "legislate" religion. Rather, we have to look at the features of religion - that it socializes people and provides a framework for meaning - and figure out a way to encourage people to seek out social networks (or to make it easier to form certain kinds of social groups) and to "seek meaning." (Free philosophy courses for everyone!) It would be a mistake to look at the raw data and to conclude, "See, people need to get religion to be happy," since the proper conclusion is simply that people need to spend less time alone (that it's religion that does this for many people is what I'm referring to as an accidental feature). A related worry I have concerns "happiness factors" which might decrease the overall rationality of people (or, their contact with reality): e.g. optimists tend to be happy, but optimists also don't make accurate self-assessments (as in 'illusion of control' experiments). Will, I get your point about the “statistically average person.” The hard work, then, would involve separating essential and accidental features (sorry, this isn’t perfect terminology). For example, there are data that show that religious people tend to be happier than non-religious people, but it would be (I take it) a mistake to “legislate” religion. Rather, we have to look at the features of religion – that it socializes people and provides a framework for meaning – and figure out a way to encourage people to seek out social networks (or to make it easier to form certain kinds of social groups) and to “seek meaning.” (Free philosophy courses for everyone!) It would be a mistake to look at the raw data and to conclude, “See, people need to get religion to be happy,” since the proper conclusion is simply that people need to spend less time alone (that it’s religion that does this for many people is what I’m referring to as an accidental feature). A related worry I have concerns “happiness factors” which might decrease the overall rationality of people (or, their contact with reality): e.g. optimists tend to be happy, but optimists also don’t make accurate self-assessments (as in ‘illusion of control’ experiments).

]]> By: Matt http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/12/19/herbert-spencer-clues-explosion/#comment-9372 Matt Thu, 21 Dec 2006 14:57:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/12/19/herbert-spencer-clues-explosion/#comment-9372 Will, I get your point about the "statistically average person." The hard work, then, would involve separating essential and accidental features (sorry, this isn't perfect terminology). For example, there are data that show that religious people tend to be happier than non-religious people, but it would be (I take it) a mistake to "legislate" religion. Rather, we have to look at the features of religion - that it socializes people and provides a framework for meaning - and figure out a way to encourage people to seek out social networks (or to make it easier to form certain kinds of social groups) and to "seek meaning." (Free philosophy courses for everyone!) It would be a mistake to look at the raw data and to conclude, "See, people need to get religion to be happy," since the proper conclusion is simply that people need to spend less time alone (that it's religion that does this for many people is what I'm referring to as an accidental feature). A related worry I have concerns "happiness factors" which might decrease the overall rationality of people (or, their contact with reality): e.g. optimists tend to be happy, but optimists also don't make accurate self-assessments (as in 'illusion of control' experiments). Will, I get your point about the “statistically average person.” The hard work, then, would involve separating essential and accidental features (sorry, this isn’t perfect terminology). For example, there are data that show that religious people tend to be happier than non-religious people, but it would be (I take it) a mistake to “legislate” religion. Rather, we have to look at the features of religion – that it socializes people and provides a framework for meaning – and figure out a way to encourage people to seek out social networks (or to make it easier to form certain kinds of social groups) and to “seek meaning.” (Free philosophy courses for everyone!) It would be a mistake to look at the raw data and to conclude, “See, people need to get religion to be happy,” since the proper conclusion is simply that people need to spend less time alone (that it’s religion that does this for many people is what I’m referring to as an accidental feature). A related worry I have concerns “happiness factors” which might decrease the overall rationality of people (or, their contact with reality): e.g. optimists tend to be happy, but optimists also don’t make accurate self-assessments (as in ‘illusion of control’ experiments).

]]> By: Brian Schwartz http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/12/19/herbert-spencer-clues-explosion/#comment-9360 Brian Schwartz Wed, 20 Dec 2006 19:24:02 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/12/19/herbert-spencer-clues-explosion/#comment-9360 A quick Google search satiated my curiosity: the source of the Spencer passage Will quoted. Social Statics, The Doctrine of Expediency, Section 2. Kudos to Liberty Fund's Online Library of Liberty for putting the text on-line! http://tinyurl.com/93l88. (I've pasted the tinyurl because I'm not sure if the comments section allows html-style links.) A quick Google search satiated my curiosity: the source of the Spencer passage Will quoted. Social Statics, The Doctrine of Expediency, Section 2. Kudos to Liberty Fund’s Online Library of Liberty for putting the text on-line! http://tinyurl.com/93l88. (I’ve pasted the tinyurl because I’m not sure if the comments section allows html-style links.)

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