Comments on: Happiness and Economic Growth http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/ The Sweet Release of Reason Tue, 22 May 2012 20:28:45 +0000 hourly 1 By: Bill Korner http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9112 Bill Korner Mon, 09 Oct 2006 14:42:34 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9112 The kitty guillotine is a stroke of genius. The kitty guillotine is a stroke of genius.

]]> By: Bill Korner http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9120 Bill Korner Mon, 09 Oct 2006 14:42:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9120 The kitty guillotine is a stroke of genius. The kitty guillotine is a stroke of genius.

]]> By: Brent Buckner http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9111 Brent Buckner Thu, 05 Oct 2006 13:31:40 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9111 On-going (general) economic growth seems such a wonderful thing in the context of the "hedonic treadmill". Strange that mentions of the latter are so rarely matched with mentions of the former. On-going (general) economic growth seems such a wonderful thing in the context of the “hedonic treadmill”. Strange that mentions of the latter are so rarely matched with mentions of the former.

]]> By: Brent Buckner http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9119 Brent Buckner Thu, 05 Oct 2006 13:31:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9119 On-going (general) economic growth seems such a wonderful thing in the context of the "hedonic treadmill". Strange that mentions of the latter are so rarely matched with mentions of the former. On-going (general) economic growth seems such a wonderful thing in the context of the “hedonic treadmill”. Strange that mentions of the latter are so rarely matched with mentions of the former.

]]> By: Sam http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9110 Sam Thu, 05 Oct 2006 08:43:02 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9110 Unfortunately, I suspect that the poor kitten will be wheezing its last long before the bike get shiny. But that's an argument for another day. And perhaps a more pliable analogy... On another matter, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the current Cato Unbound discussion (for a lefty Brit, I've been developing a curious, and probably unhealthy, interest in US Libertarian thinking just recently). Are you planning to post about it, or does you role as editor prohibit that? Unfortunately, I suspect that the poor kitten will be wheezing its last long before the bike get shiny. But that’s an argument for another day. And perhaps a more pliable analogy…

On another matter, I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on the current Cato Unbound discussion (for a lefty Brit, I’ve been developing a curious, and probably unhealthy, interest in US Libertarian thinking just recently). Are you planning to post about it, or does you role as editor prohibit that?

]]> By: Sam http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9118 Sam Thu, 05 Oct 2006 08:43:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9118 Unfortunately, I suspect that the poor kitten will be wheezing its last long before the bike get shiny. But that's an argument for another day. And perhaps a more pliable analogy... On another matter, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the current Cato Unbound discussion (for a lefty Brit, I've been developing a curious, and probably unhealthy, interest in US Libertarian thinking just recently). Are you planning to post about it, or does you role as editor prohibit that? Unfortunately, I suspect that the poor kitten will be wheezing its last long before the bike get shiny. But that’s an argument for another day. And perhaps a more pliable analogy…

On another matter, I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on the current Cato Unbound discussion (for a lefty Brit, I’ve been developing a curious, and probably unhealthy, interest in US Libertarian thinking just recently). Are you planning to post about it, or does you role as editor prohibit that?

]]> By: Will Wilkinson http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9109 Will Wilkinson Wed, 04 Oct 2006 14:22:05 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9109 Sam, Because the faster you pedal, the cleaner the bike gets! Sam, Because the faster you pedal, the cleaner the bike gets!

]]> By: Will Wilkinson http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9117 Will Wilkinson Wed, 04 Oct 2006 14:22:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9117 Sam, Because the faster you pedal, the cleaner the bike gets! Sam, Because the faster you pedal, the cleaner the bike gets!

]]> By: Sam http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9108 Sam Wed, 04 Oct 2006 09:04:26 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9108 Jadagul, I think there’s pretty good evidence suggesting quite the opposite – namely, that once an acceptable level of wealth has been reached, the benefits of more are largely attributable to relative, rather than absolute effects. If this is the case, economic growth certainly makes the very poorest happier, because absolute differences in income matter a great deal at this level. It also – to some extent – makes the richest happier. What it doesn’t do (or, at best, does inefficiently to the point of being negligible) is make everyone happier. In other words, most people - i.e. the majority, who have enough to live comfortably, are not 'rich', and make their status comparisons upwards - care quite a lot more about inequality than they do about absolute income. I commend to you an excellent review paper by Clark, Frijters and Shields that seems to nail down these relationships pretty conclusively in my view – it’s not in print yet, but you can probably get it from Andrew Clark directly. Will, I like your analogy, although I’ve always had a soft spot for kittens so it did make me wince a bit. But to capture the whole picture, why not expand it a little further? Something like “Imagine a guillotine, on which a kitten is strapped, connected to a bicycle that must be pedalled ever more quickly to keep the blade aloft. Slow down, and the kitten gets it. Keep cycling ever faster, however, and the resulting noxious emissions from the gasping cyclist and his creaking bicycle will poison the kitten anyway.” Jadagul, I think there’s pretty good evidence suggesting quite the opposite – namely, that once an acceptable level of wealth has been reached, the benefits of more are largely attributable to relative, rather than absolute effects. If this is the case, economic growth certainly makes the very poorest happier, because absolute differences in income matter a great deal at this level. It also – to some extent – makes the richest happier. What it doesn’t do (or, at best, does inefficiently to the point of being negligible) is make everyone happier. In other words, most people – i.e. the majority, who have enough to live comfortably, are not ‘rich’, and make their status comparisons upwards – care quite a lot more about inequality than they do about absolute income.

I commend to you an excellent review paper by Clark, Frijters and Shields that seems to nail down these relationships pretty conclusively in my view – it’s not in print yet, but you can probably get it from Andrew Clark directly.

Will, I like your analogy, although I’ve always had a soft spot for kittens so it did make me wince a bit. But to capture the whole picture, why not expand it a little further? Something like “Imagine a guillotine, on which a kitten is strapped, connected to a bicycle that must be pedalled ever more quickly to keep the blade aloft. Slow down, and the kitten gets it. Keep cycling ever faster, however, and the resulting noxious emissions from the gasping cyclist and his creaking bicycle will poison the kitten anyway.”

]]> By: Sam http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9116 Sam Wed, 04 Oct 2006 09:04:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9116 Jadagul, I think there’s pretty good evidence suggesting quite the opposite – namely, that once an acceptable level of wealth has been reached, the benefits of more are largely attributable to relative, rather than absolute effects. If this is the case, economic growth certainly makes the very poorest happier, because absolute differences in income matter a great deal at this level. It also – to some extent – makes the richest happier. What it doesn’t do (or, at best, does inefficiently to the point of being negligible) is make everyone happier. In other words, most people - i.e. the majority, who have enough to live comfortably, are not 'rich', and make their status comparisons upwards - care quite a lot more about inequality than they do about absolute income. I commend to you an excellent review paper by Clark, Frijters and Shields that seems to nail down these relationships pretty conclusively in my view – it’s not in print yet, but you can probably get it from Andrew Clark directly. Will, I like your analogy, although I’ve always had a soft spot for kittens so it did make me wince a bit. But to capture the whole picture, why not expand it a little further? Something like “Imagine a guillotine, on which a kitten is strapped, connected to a bicycle that must be pedalled ever more quickly to keep the blade aloft. Slow down, and the kitten gets it. Keep cycling ever faster, however, and the resulting noxious emissions from the gasping cyclist and his creaking bicycle will poison the kitten anyway.” Jadagul, I think there’s pretty good evidence suggesting quite the opposite – namely, that once an acceptable level of wealth has been reached, the benefits of more are largely attributable to relative, rather than absolute effects. If this is the case, economic growth certainly makes the very poorest happier, because absolute differences in income matter a great deal at this level. It also – to some extent – makes the richest happier. What it doesn’t do (or, at best, does inefficiently to the point of being negligible) is make everyone happier. In other words, most people – i.e. the majority, who have enough to live comfortably, are not ‘rich’, and make their status comparisons upwards – care quite a lot more about inequality than they do about absolute income.

I commend to you an excellent review paper by Clark, Frijters and Shields that seems to nail down these relationships pretty conclusively in my view – it’s not in print yet, but you can probably get it from Andrew Clark directly.

Will, I like your analogy, although I’ve always had a soft spot for kittens so it did make me wince a bit. But to capture the whole picture, why not expand it a little further? Something like “Imagine a guillotine, on which a kitten is strapped, connected to a bicycle that must be pedalled ever more quickly to keep the blade aloft. Slow down, and the kitten gets it. Keep cycling ever faster, however, and the resulting noxious emissions from the gasping cyclist and his creaking bicycle will poison the kitten anyway.”

]]> By: Jadagul http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9107 Jadagul Wed, 04 Oct 2006 04:22:33 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9107 David, I can't speak for Will, of course, but I don't think the connection you're asserting is there. Economic growth makes the rich richer, and therefore happier. It makes the poor richer, and therefore happier. It makes the gap bigger, but no one cares—at least, most people care more about the growth than about the inequality. David, I can’t speak for Will, of course, but I don’t think the connection you’re asserting is there. Economic growth makes the rich richer, and therefore happier. It makes the poor richer, and therefore happier. It makes the gap bigger, but no one cares—at least, most people care more about the growth than about the inequality.

]]> By: Jadagul http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9115 Jadagul Wed, 04 Oct 2006 04:22:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9115 David, I can't speak for Will, of course, but I don't think the connection you're asserting is there. Economic growth makes the rich richer, and therefore happier. It makes the poor richer, and therefore happier. It makes the gap bigger, but no one cares—at least, most people care more about the growth than about the inequality. David, I can’t speak for Will, of course, but I don’t think the connection you’re asserting is there. Economic growth makes the rich richer, and therefore happier. It makes the poor richer, and therefore happier. It makes the gap bigger, but no one cares—at least, most people care more about the growth than about the inequality.

]]> By: David DePianto http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9106 David DePianto Tue, 03 Oct 2006 21:28:08 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9106 Will -- Interesting article in the Prospect...it meshes nicely with your pieces on inequality, in which you struggle mightily to reduce the importance of income on our well being. So which is it? Is income a profoundly important life dimension which carries with it "a whoppingly large positive impact on average happiness over time" or is it just another dimension on which people may compete in the quest for happiness (I seem to remember something about prize-winning pies in your previous pieces). If you have a moment, let me know how it is that inequality is so utterly unproblematic when income is so important (in terms of happiness, at least) to the people who happen to have it. Are the lower rungs of the socio-economic ladder happier just for being members of a rapidly growing economy, even if they fail to share the spoils? I look forward to your response... DED Will –

Interesting article in the Prospect…it meshes nicely with your pieces on inequality, in which you struggle mightily to reduce the importance of income on our well being.

So which is it? Is income a profoundly important life dimension which carries with it “a whoppingly large positive impact on average happiness over time” or is it just another dimension on which people may compete in the quest for happiness (I seem to remember something about prize-winning pies in your previous pieces). If you have a moment, let me know how it is that inequality is so utterly unproblematic when income is so important (in terms of happiness, at least) to the people who happen to have it.

Are the lower rungs of the socio-economic ladder happier just for being members of a rapidly growing economy, even if they fail to share the spoils? I look forward to your response…

DED

]]> By: David DePianto http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9114 David DePianto Tue, 03 Oct 2006 21:28:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9114 Will -- Interesting article in the Prospect...it meshes nicely with your pieces on inequality, in which you struggle mightily to reduce the importance of income on our well being. So which is it? Is income a profoundly important life dimension which carries with it "a whoppingly large positive impact on average happiness over time" or is it just another dimension on which people may compete in the quest for happiness (I seem to remember something about prize-winning pies in your previous pieces). If you have a moment, let me know how it is that inequality is so utterly unproblematic when income is so important (in terms of happiness, at least) to the people who happen to have it. Are the lower rungs of the socio-economic ladder happier just for being members of a rapidly growing economy, even if they fail to share the spoils? I look forward to your response... DED Will –

Interesting article in the Prospect…it meshes nicely with your pieces on inequality, in which you struggle mightily to reduce the importance of income on our well being.

So which is it? Is income a profoundly important life dimension which carries with it “a whoppingly large positive impact on average happiness over time” or is it just another dimension on which people may compete in the quest for happiness (I seem to remember something about prize-winning pies in your previous pieces). If you have a moment, let me know how it is that inequality is so utterly unproblematic when income is so important (in terms of happiness, at least) to the people who happen to have it.

Are the lower rungs of the socio-economic ladder happier just for being members of a rapidly growing economy, even if they fail to share the spoils? I look forward to your response…

DED

]]> By: Jeff Lilly http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9105 Jeff Lilly Tue, 03 Oct 2006 17:59:11 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2006/10/03/happiness-and-economic-growth/#comment-9105 Will, that metaphor is certainly... uh... vivid... Will, that metaphor is certainly… uh… vivid…

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