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	<title>Comments on: The Fake Paradox of Prosperity</title>
	<atom:link href="http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/</link>
	<description>The Sweet Release of Reason</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:11:50 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: John_B</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/#comment-6817</link>
		<dc:creator>John_B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-6817</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not agree with Gareth. Because when you get what you whant, when you reach your goal there exist a littie period of time when you feel yourself  happy.This period is very short because life goes on. You make another goal.  There is no paradox here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not agree with Gareth. Because when you get what you whant, when you reach your goal there exist a littie period of time when you feel yourself  happy.This period is very short because life goes on. You make another goal.  There is no paradox here.</p>
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		<title>By: Javier</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/#comment-6816</link>
		<dc:creator>Javier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-6816</guid>
		<description>Woops, sorry for the doublepost of the same study. Anyway, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.psa.ac.uk/cps/2000/Radcliff%20Benjamin%20et%20al.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&#039;s&lt;/a&gt; some evidence on the other side. The conclusion of this study found that&lt;blockquote&gt;The substantive implication is, of course, that the more socialist the provision of social welfare, or, similarly, the greater the decommodification accomplished by state policy, the more satisfied are people with their lives. The magnitude of this effect is pronounced.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Woops, sorry for the doublepost of the same study. Anyway, <a href="http://www.psa.ac.uk/cps/2000/Radcliff%20Benjamin%20et%20al.pdf" rel="nofollow">here&#8217;s</a> some evidence on the other side. The conclusion of this study found that<br />
<blockquote>The substantive implication is, of course, that the more socialist the provision of social welfare, or, similarly, the greater the decommodification accomplished by state policy, the more satisfied are people with their lives. The magnitude of this effect is pronounced.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Javier</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/#comment-6815</link>
		<dc:creator>Javier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-6815</guid>
		<description>Admitted, but as of now there is scant evidence that more income equality and fewer formal work hours translates into greater happiness for society.

Also, note that fewer formal work hours at one&#039;s paid employment doesn&#039;t necessarily translate into more leisure time. European countries have reduced formal work hours faster than the United States, but it seems that they have approximately the same amount of leisure time when you factor in unpaid work in the household. If anything, the United States seems to have a slight advantage here. &lt;a href=&quot;http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/000590.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&#039;s&lt;/a&gt; a comparison between Sweden and the US and &lt;a href=&quot;http://skylla.wz-berlin.de/pdf/2002/i02-212.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&#039;s&lt;/a&gt; a comparsion between Germany and the US.

If leisure time makes people happier, then it&#039;s a mystery to me how we should encourage people to work less, since high taxes and mandatory hour limits don&#039;t seem to do the trick. As for income inequality, this is all that I could find (I believe Will also brought this up at one point): &lt;blockquote&gt;Using a total of 128,106 answers to a survey question about happiness,&#039; we find that there is a large, negative and significant effect of inequality on happiness in Europe but not in the US. There are two potential explanations. First, Europeans prefer more equal societies (inequality belongs in the utility function for Europeans but not for Americans). Second, social mobility is (or is perceived to be) higher in the US so being poor is not seen as affecting future income.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I would be curious to know what other research is out there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Admitted, but as of now there is scant evidence that more income equality and fewer formal work hours translates into greater happiness for society.</p>
<p>Also, note that fewer formal work hours at one&#8217;s paid employment doesn&#8217;t necessarily translate into more leisure time. European countries have reduced formal work hours faster than the United States, but it seems that they have approximately the same amount of leisure time when you factor in unpaid work in the household. If anything, the United States seems to have a slight advantage here. <a href="http://truckandbarter.com/mt/archives/000590.html" rel="nofollow">Here&#8217;s</a> a comparison between Sweden and the US and <a href="http://skylla.wz-berlin.de/pdf/2002/i02-212.pdf" rel="nofollow">here&#8217;s</a> a comparsion between Germany and the US.</p>
<p>If leisure time makes people happier, then it&#8217;s a mystery to me how we should encourage people to work less, since high taxes and mandatory hour limits don&#8217;t seem to do the trick. As for income inequality, this is all that I could find (I believe Will also brought this up at one point):<br />
<blockquote>Using a total of 128,106 answers to a survey question about happiness,&#8217; we find that there is a large, negative and significant effect of inequality on happiness in Europe but not in the US. There are two potential explanations. First, Europeans prefer more equal societies (inequality belongs in the utility function for Europeans but not for Americans). Second, social mobility is (or is perceived to be) higher in the US so being poor is not seen as affecting future income.</p></blockquote>
<p>I would be curious to know what other research is out there.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/#comment-6814</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-6814</guid>
		<description>On the anti-hedonic effects of inequality, check out this paper:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://post.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/alesina/papers/HappIneqREVApril3.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://post.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/alesina/papers/HappIneqREVApril3.pdf&lt;/a&gt;

Most interesting:

&quot;In Europe, the happiness of the poor is strongly negatively affected by inequality, while the effect on the rich is smaller in size and statistically insignificant. In the US one finds the opposite pattern, namely that the group whose happiness seems to be most adversely affected by inequality is the rich. A striking result is that the US poor seem totally unaffected by inequality. Any significance of the inequality coefficient in the US population is mainly driven by the rich.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the anti-hedonic effects of inequality, check out this paper:</p>
<p><a href="http://post.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/alesina/papers/HappIneqREVApril3.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://post.economics.harvard.edu/faculty/alesina/papers/HappIneqREVApril3.pdf</a></p>
<p>Most interesting:</p>
<p>&#8220;In Europe, the happiness of the poor is strongly negatively affected by inequality, while the effect on the rich is smaller in size and statistically insignificant. In the US one finds the opposite pattern, namely that the group whose happiness seems to be most adversely affected by inequality is the rich. A striking result is that the US poor seem totally unaffected by inequality. Any significance of the inequality coefficient in the US population is mainly driven by the rich.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Gareth</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/#comment-6813</link>
		<dc:creator>Gareth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Oct 2005 15:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-6813</guid>
		<description>Javier:

It is a crude comparison. Ordinary observation tells you that the US is both more religious and values optimism and cheerfulness a lot more than Western Europe. These factors might overwhelm the anti-hedonic effects of greater income inequality.

(I suspect there is a good way to try to quantify this, but it would be more work than I&#039;m up for.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Javier:</p>
<p>It is a crude comparison. Ordinary observation tells you that the US is both more religious and values optimism and cheerfulness a lot more than Western Europe. These factors might overwhelm the anti-hedonic effects of greater income inequality.</p>
<p>(I suspect there is a good way to try to quantify this, but it would be more work than I&#8217;m up for.)</p>
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		<title>By: Will Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/#comment-6812</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Oct 2005 13:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-6812</guid>
		<description>Bill, The thing I like about Easterlin&#039;s life-cycle work is that it&#039;s moving beyond simple money-happiness correlations. Looking at his data, it seems fairly clear to me that increasing wealth correlates with increasing satsifaction with one&#039;s finances, and that has a continuing positive effect. It&#039;s just that the positive effect of wealth is offset by declining satisfaction with health, declining satisfaction family, etc. That is, the overall trend is for people to become less happy after middle age, but wealth mitigates that trend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, The thing I like about Easterlin&#8217;s life-cycle work is that it&#8217;s moving beyond simple money-happiness correlations. Looking at his data, it seems fairly clear to me that increasing wealth correlates with increasing satsifaction with one&#8217;s finances, and that has a continuing positive effect. It&#8217;s just that the positive effect of wealth is offset by declining satisfaction with health, declining satisfaction family, etc. That is, the overall trend is for people to become less happy after middle age, but wealth mitigates that trend.</p>
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		<title>By: Javier</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/#comment-6811</link>
		<dc:creator>Javier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Oct 2005 11:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-6811</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;My conjecture is that most people would like to get happier (and could) by doing other things. But we are encouraged (by mighty economists among others) to do whatever we want to do by getting more wealth. And, in addition, wealth inequality and the norm in favor of increasing individual wealth have effects that prevent us from doing many things that we would truly like to do.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Is there any evidence at all that policies which encourage more leisure and less wealth accumulation make people happier? Both France and Germany have less inequality and people work less in those countries, but they apparently have lower rates of life satisfaction than the United States. Some data &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/lif_lif_sat&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here.&lt;/a&gt; This is of course a crude comparison, but I don&#039;t know if any serious research on this topic exists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>My conjecture is that most people would like to get happier (and could) by doing other things. But we are encouraged (by mighty economists among others) to do whatever we want to do by getting more wealth. And, in addition, wealth inequality and the norm in favor of increasing individual wealth have effects that prevent us from doing many things that we would truly like to do.</p></blockquote>
<p>Is there any evidence at all that policies which encourage more leisure and less wealth accumulation make people happier? Both France and Germany have less inequality and people work less in those countries, but they apparently have lower rates of life satisfaction than the United States. Some data <a href="http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/lif_lif_sat" rel="nofollow">here.</a> This is of course a crude comparison, but I don&#8217;t know if any serious research on this topic exists.</p>
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		<title>By: Sally Riley</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/#comment-6810</link>
		<dc:creator>Sally Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Oct 2005 09:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-6810</guid>
		<description>The book Ecclesiastes has been written to offer the results of this quest.  If you take time to read it, the pages are few in number, you will find your own  type of lifestyle and choice of searching listed as one tried by the author during the passing of his own days on earth.  An honest read will result in finding &#039;happiness&#039; is in the choices of your own heart and not the outside [the world around you].  My two-cents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The book Ecclesiastes has been written to offer the results of this quest.  If you take time to read it, the pages are few in number, you will find your own  type of lifestyle and choice of searching listed as one tried by the author during the passing of his own days on earth.  An honest read will result in finding &#8216;happiness&#8217; is in the choices of your own heart and not the outside [the world around you].  My two-cents.</p>
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		<title>By: BillKorner</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/#comment-6809</link>
		<dc:creator>BillKorner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Oct 2005 09:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-6809</guid>
		<description>Gareth: It&#039;s not clear from Easterlin&#039;s study that people even &quot;want&quot; more money.  What is clear is that they expect to get it, over the course of their lifetime.  And they expect it to make them happier.  But it does not.

The possibility remains open, within Easterlin&#039;s framework, that people would like to &quot;get happy&quot; by other (more reliable) means besides increased wealth.

My conjecture is that most people would like to get happier (and could) by doing other things.  But we are encouraged (by mighty economists among others) to do whatever we want to do by getting more wealth.  And, in addition, wealth inequality and the norm in favor of increasing individual wealth have effects that prevent us from doing many things that we would truly like to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gareth: It&#8217;s not clear from Easterlin&#8217;s study that people even &#8220;want&#8221; more money.  What is clear is that they expect to get it, over the course of their lifetime.  And they expect it to make them happier.  But it does not.</p>
<p>The possibility remains open, within Easterlin&#8217;s framework, that people would like to &#8220;get happy&#8221; by other (more reliable) means besides increased wealth.</p>
<p>My conjecture is that most people would like to get happier (and could) by doing other things.  But we are encouraged (by mighty economists among others) to do whatever we want to do by getting more wealth.  And, in addition, wealth inequality and the norm in favor of increasing individual wealth have effects that prevent us from doing many things that we would truly like to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Gareth</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/18/the-fake-paradox-of-prosperity/#comment-6808</link>
		<dc:creator>Gareth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=819#comment-6808</guid>
		<description>The paradox is that people want (or say they want) happiness, but that (at least after a certain threshold is reached) when people get more of what they want, they aren&#039;t happier. It isn&#039;t a new insight, but it is relevant to the ideological battle between social democracy and libertarianism for the reasons Bill mentions.

The insight that getting what we want doesn&#039;t make us happy isn&#039;t startling and isn&#039;t a contradiction, but I don&#039;t know why we can&#039;t call it a &quot;paradox.&quot; Is there some technical meaning of paradox I&#039;m missing here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The paradox is that people want (or say they want) happiness, but that (at least after a certain threshold is reached) when people get more of what they want, they aren&#8217;t happier. It isn&#8217;t a new insight, but it is relevant to the ideological battle between social democracy and libertarianism for the reasons Bill mentions.</p>
<p>The insight that getting what we want doesn&#8217;t make us happy isn&#8217;t startling and isn&#8217;t a contradiction, but I don&#8217;t know why we can&#8217;t call it a &#8220;paradox.&#8221; Is there some technical meaning of paradox I&#8217;m missing here?</p>
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