Comments on: Behind the Veils http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/13/behind-the-veils/ The Sweet Release of Reason Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:11:50 +0000 hourly 1 By: Matt http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/13/behind-the-veils/#comment-6729 Matt Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:34:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=816#comment-6729 Hi Will, As far as I can tell (from looking in the _Collected Papers_ Rawls first used the term "veil of ignorance" in his paper "The sense of justice", which was published in '63 (so of course written earlier) but the basic idea (though in a more primitive form) is pretty clearly there in "Justice as Fairness", published in '58. Rawls was usually pretty careful about citing people he was influenced by, so I'd guess he started thinking about the issue (or was heavily influenced on it- I don't know what his disertation was like) by Harsany and the the Buchanan & Tullock similarity is just one of those interesting coincidence. This is all to say nothing, of course about the relative merits- I don't know Buchanan's work in this area well enough to have an opinion. Hi Will,

As far as I can tell (from looking in the _Collected Papers_ Rawls first used the term “veil of ignorance” in his paper “The sense of justice”, which was published in ’63 (so of course written earlier) but the basic idea (though in a more primitive form) is pretty clearly there in “Justice as Fairness”, published in ’58. Rawls was usually pretty careful about citing people he was influenced by, so I’d guess he started thinking about the issue (or was heavily influenced on it- I don’t know what his disertation was like) by Harsany and the the Buchanan & Tullock similarity is just one of those interesting coincidence. This is all to say nothing, of course about the relative merits- I don’t know Buchanan’s work in this area well enough to have an opinion.

]]> By: Luka http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/13/behind-the-veils/#comment-6728 Luka Fri, 14 Oct 2005 05:36:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=816#comment-6728 Right. That sounds reasonable. Thanks! Right. That sounds reasonable. Thanks!

]]> By: Will Wilkinson http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/13/behind-the-veils/#comment-6727 Will Wilkinson Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:30:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=816#comment-6727 The test is whether your best descriptive theories of human nature and social order rule it out as a possibility. For instance, large-scale communism is pejoratively utopian because of both the calculation problem, and the incentive problem. Our best theories tell us that a large society without a price system, and which relies primarily on other-regarding motivation, will not be stable. So the way to tell is just to read social science and psychology. The test is whether your best descriptive theories of human nature and social order rule it out as a possibility. For instance, large-scale communism is pejoratively utopian because of both the calculation problem, and the incentive problem. Our best theories tell us that a large society without a price system, and which relies primarily on other-regarding motivation, will not be stable. So the way to tell is just to read social science and psychology.

]]> By: Luka http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/13/behind-the-veils/#comment-6726 Luka Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:22:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=816#comment-6726 Will, Can you (roughly) state what the test for a theory being utopian in the pejorative sense is? How can we most easily tell if our theory has that property? Just curious. Will,

Can you (roughly) state what the test for a theory being utopian in the pejorative sense is? How can we most easily tell if our theory has that property?

Just curious.

]]> By: Luka http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/13/behind-the-veils/#comment-6722 Luka Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=816#comment-6722 Will, Can you (roughly) state what the test for a theory being utopian in the pejorative sense is? How can we most easily tell if our theory has that property? Just curious. Will,

Can you (roughly) state what the test for a theory being utopian in the pejorative sense is? How can we most easily tell if our theory has that property?

Just curious.

]]> By: Will Wilkinson http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/13/behind-the-veils/#comment-6723 Will Wilkinson Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=816#comment-6723 The test is whether your best descriptive theories of human nature and social order rule it out as a possibility. For instance, large-scale communism is pejoratively utopian because of both the calculation problem, and the incentive problem. Our best theories tell us that a large society without a price system, and which relies primarily on other-regarding motivation, will not be stable. So the way to tell is just to read social science and psychology. The test is whether your best descriptive theories of human nature and social order rule it out as a possibility. For instance, large-scale communism is pejoratively utopian because of both the calculation problem, and the incentive problem. Our best theories tell us that a large society without a price system, and which relies primarily on other-regarding motivation, will not be stable. So the way to tell is just to read social science and psychology.

]]> By: Luka http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/13/behind-the-veils/#comment-6724 Luka Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=816#comment-6724 Right. That sounds reasonable. Thanks! Right. That sounds reasonable. Thanks!

]]> By: Matt http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/10/13/behind-the-veils/#comment-6725 Matt Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=816#comment-6725 Hi Will, As far as I can tell (from looking in the _Collected Papers_ Rawls first used the term "veil of ignorance" in his paper "The sense of justice", which was published in '63 (so of course written earlier) but the basic idea (though in a more primitive form) is pretty clearly there in "Justice as Fairness", published in '58. Rawls was usually pretty careful about citing people he was influenced by, so I'd guess he started thinking about the issue (or was heavily influenced on it- I don't know what his disertation was like) by Harsany and the the Buchanan & Tullock similarity is just one of those interesting coincidence. This is all to say nothing, of course about the relative merits- I don't know Buchanan's work in this area well enough to have an opinion. Hi Will,

As far as I can tell (from looking in the _Collected Papers_ Rawls first used the term “veil of ignorance” in his paper “The sense of justice”, which was published in ’63 (so of course written earlier) but the basic idea (though in a more primitive form) is pretty clearly there in “Justice as Fairness”, published in ’58. Rawls was usually pretty careful about citing people he was influenced by, so I’d guess he started thinking about the issue (or was heavily influenced on it- I don’t know what his disertation was like) by Harsany and the the Buchanan & Tullock similarity is just one of those interesting coincidence. This is all to say nothing, of course about the relative merits- I don’t know Buchanan’s work in this area well enough to have an opinion.

]]>