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	<title>Comments on: Does Cindy Sheehan Have Moral Authority?</title>
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	<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/08/23/does-cindy-sheehan-have-moral-authority/</link>
	<description>The Sweet Release of Reason</description>
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		<title>By: Matt McIntosh</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/08/23/does-cindy-sheehan-have-moral-authority/#comment-6562</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt McIntosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=795#comment-6562</guid>
		<description>Will,

Sorry for the tardy reply. I suppose &quot;necessary&quot; and &quot;unnecessary&quot; is a bit more acceptable to me, but I still have nothing against &quot;unnecessary&quot; wars if the projected costs are outweighed by the projected benefits (and I say that taking all parties into account, in this case Americans, Iraqis, and others who might be affected). After all, one can make a case that American involvement in Europe in WWII was &quot;unnecessary&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will,</p>
<p>Sorry for the tardy reply. I suppose &#8220;necessary&#8221; and &#8220;unnecessary&#8221; is a bit more acceptable to me, but I still have nothing against &#8220;unnecessary&#8221; wars if the projected costs are outweighed by the projected benefits (and I say that taking all parties into account, in this case Americans, Iraqis, and others who might be affected). After all, one can make a case that American involvement in Europe in WWII was &#8220;unnecessary&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Gabriel Mihalache</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/08/23/does-cindy-sheehan-have-moral-authority/#comment-6561</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabriel Mihalache</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=795#comment-6561</guid>
		<description>Notice that she isn&#039;t disputing that GWB is the proper Commander-in-Chief but rather that he, in that position, FUBARed the situation.

When an individual signs up for the military, he indeed forfeits some rights and accept the possibility of being exposed to combat. That&#039;s contractual and that&#039;s OK.
What I want to point out here is that in that contract, there are duties for the State also.

If someone signs-up as a soldier in an army, he does so under the assumption that the State will act in a certain way... i.e. engaging only in just and lawful conflicts, etc.

A lot of people are accusing GWB of precisely breaking his contractual duty as Commander-in-Chief, in some sense breaking his oath of office.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Notice that she isn&#8217;t disputing that GWB is the proper Commander-in-Chief but rather that he, in that position, FUBARed the situation.</p>
<p>When an individual signs up for the military, he indeed forfeits some rights and accept the possibility of being exposed to combat. That&#8217;s contractual and that&#8217;s OK.<br />
What I want to point out here is that in that contract, there are duties for the State also.</p>
<p>If someone signs-up as a soldier in an army, he does so under the assumption that the State will act in a certain way&#8230; i.e. engaging only in just and lawful conflicts, etc.</p>
<p>A lot of people are accusing GWB of precisely breaking his contractual duty as Commander-in-Chief, in some sense breaking his oath of office.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/08/23/does-cindy-sheehan-have-moral-authority/#comment-6560</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Aug 2005 16:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=795#comment-6560</guid>
		<description>By &quot;in this kind of case&quot; I meant the Sheehan case, not wrongful death cases. My fault for the ambiguity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By &#8220;in this kind of case&#8221; I meant the Sheehan case, not wrongful death cases. My fault for the ambiguity.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Jilk</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/08/23/does-cindy-sheehan-have-moral-authority/#comment-6559</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Jilk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Aug 2005 16:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=795#comment-6559</guid>
		<description>Wrongful death suits are limited by most states to spouse and minor children, or to parents of minor children who die; and damages are based on loss of future benefits including both earning as well as affection etc.  Definitely not symbolic.

Not the main point of the thread...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wrongful death suits are limited by most states to spouse and minor children, or to parents of minor children who die; and damages are based on loss of future benefits including both earning as well as affection etc.  Definitely not symbolic.</p>
<p>Not the main point of the thread&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Will Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/08/23/does-cindy-sheehan-have-moral-authority/#comment-6558</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Aug 2005 01:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=795#comment-6558</guid>
		<description>Will, You&#039;re truly a font of legal knowledge!

By unconstitutional, do you mean if the conflict or military action in which he died was unconstitutional?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will, You&#8217;re truly a font of legal knowledge!</p>
<p>By unconstitutional, do you mean if the conflict or military action in which he died was unconstitutional?</p>
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		<title>By: Will Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/08/23/does-cindy-sheehan-have-moral-authority/#comment-6557</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Aug 2005 01:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=795#comment-6557</guid>
		<description>Gil, I didn&#039;t know that. And I do think that changes things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gil, I didn&#8217;t know that. And I do think that changes things.</p>
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		<title>By: Gil</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/08/23/does-cindy-sheehan-have-moral-authority/#comment-6556</link>
		<dc:creator>Gil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2005 21:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=795#comment-6556</guid>
		<description>Will,

Did you consider that Casey Sheehan did more than just expose himself to the risk of death in conflicts that the president might engage in in the future.

He specifically reenlisted after the start of this war.

So, he viewed this war as just and chose to be a part of it.  I don&#039;t see how there can be anything left of his mother&#039;s moral protection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will,</p>
<p>Did you consider that Casey Sheehan did more than just expose himself to the risk of death in conflicts that the president might engage in in the future.</p>
<p>He specifically reenlisted after the start of this war.</p>
<p>So, he viewed this war as just and chose to be a part of it.  I don&#8217;t see how there can be anything left of his mother&#8217;s moral protection.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Baude</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/08/23/does-cindy-sheehan-have-moral-authority/#comment-6555</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Baude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2005 19:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=795#comment-6555</guid>
		<description>For what it is worth, not only does Cindy Sheehan not have a legal claim, but she clearly wouldn&#039;t have legal standing even if the killing of her son had been unconstitutional.  See Gilmore v. Utah, 429 U.S. 1012, 1016-17.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For what it is worth, not only does Cindy Sheehan not have a legal claim, but she clearly wouldn&#8217;t have legal standing even if the killing of her son had been unconstitutional.  See Gilmore v. Utah, 429 U.S. 1012, 1016-17.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/08/23/does-cindy-sheehan-have-moral-authority/#comment-6554</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2005 19:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=795#comment-6554</guid>
		<description>Matt, For the record, I don&#039;t think it is obvious or easy to tell whether the present war is just or unjust. That&#039;s why I&#039;m not strident about my own view. Clearly, on my analysis, if someone thinks the war is just, Sheehan has a basis for sorrow, but no moral case against the President. For cynics like you . . . do you countenance a distinction between necessary and unnecessary wars?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, For the record, I don&#8217;t think it is obvious or easy to tell whether the present war is just or unjust. That&#8217;s why I&#8217;m not strident about my own view. Clearly, on my analysis, if someone thinks the war is just, Sheehan has a basis for sorrow, but no moral case against the President. For cynics like you . . . do you countenance a distinction between necessary and unnecessary wars?</p>
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		<title>By: Will Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/08/23/does-cindy-sheehan-have-moral-authority/#comment-6552</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2005 18:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=795#comment-6552</guid>
		<description>Dave, I meant to more or less dismiss (3), since the analogy is weak. But it is also not that case that  civil wrongful death suits, which happen all the time, bring back the dead. In this kind of case, redress simply amount to an admission of injustice, and a symbolic, institutional expression of guilt and regret.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, I meant to more or less dismiss (3), since the analogy is weak. But it is also not that case that  civil wrongful death suits, which happen all the time, bring back the dead. In this kind of case, redress simply amount to an admission of injustice, and a symbolic, institutional expression of guilt and regret.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt McIntosh</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/08/23/does-cindy-sheehan-have-moral-authority/#comment-6553</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt McIntosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2005 18:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=795#comment-6553</guid>
		<description>What about those who do think the war was just, like &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com/2003_11_09_regnumcrucis_archive.html#106853368063630494&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dan Darling&lt;/a&gt;, who has specifically predicated his support for the war on Catholic Just War doctrine and still believes it to have been just? More to the point, what about cynics like me who reject the entire notion that terms like &quot;just&quot; and &quot;unjust&quot; can be meaningfully applied to war?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about those who do think the war was just, like <a href="http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com/2003_11_09_regnumcrucis_archive.html#106853368063630494" rel="nofollow">Dan Darling</a>, who has specifically predicated his support for the war on Catholic Just War doctrine and still believes it to have been just? More to the point, what about cynics like me who reject the entire notion that terms like &#8220;just&#8221; and &#8220;unjust&#8221; can be meaningfully applied to war?</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Jilk</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/08/23/does-cindy-sheehan-have-moral-authority/#comment-6551</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Jilk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2005 18:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=795#comment-6551</guid>
		<description>But you didn&#039;t look at item #3, whether the injury would be redressed by a decision.  It&#039;s not clear that this part of the analogy works, but clearly any change in Bush&#039;s policy would not bring back Sheehan&#039;s son, and so the specific injury would not be redressed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But you didn&#8217;t look at item #3, whether the injury would be redressed by a decision.  It&#8217;s not clear that this part of the analogy works, but clearly any change in Bush&#8217;s policy would not bring back Sheehan&#8217;s son, and so the specific injury would not be redressed.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Jilk</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/08/23/does-cindy-sheehan-have-moral-authority/#comment-6539</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Jilk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=795#comment-6539</guid>
		<description>But you didn&#039;t look at item #3, whether the injury would be redressed by a decision.  It&#039;s not clear that this part of the analogy works, but clearly any change in Bush&#039;s policy would not bring back Sheehan&#039;s son, and so the specific injury would not be redressed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But you didn&#8217;t look at item #3, whether the injury would be redressed by a decision.  It&#8217;s not clear that this part of the analogy works, but clearly any change in Bush&#8217;s policy would not bring back Sheehan&#8217;s son, and so the specific injury would not be redressed.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/08/23/does-cindy-sheehan-have-moral-authority/#comment-6540</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=795#comment-6540</guid>
		<description>Dave, I meant to more or less dismiss (3), since the analogy is weak. But it is also not that case that  civil wrongful death suits, which happen all the time, bring back the dead. In this kind of case, redress simply amount to an admission of injustice, and a symbolic, institutional expression of guilt and regret.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, I meant to more or less dismiss (3), since the analogy is weak. But it is also not that case that  civil wrongful death suits, which happen all the time, bring back the dead. In this kind of case, redress simply amount to an admission of injustice, and a symbolic, institutional expression of guilt and regret.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt McIntosh</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/08/23/does-cindy-sheehan-have-moral-authority/#comment-6541</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt McIntosh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=795#comment-6541</guid>
		<description>What about those who do think the war was just, like &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com/2003_11_09_regnumcrucis_archive.html#106853368063630494&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dan Darling&lt;/a&gt;, who has specifically predicated his support for the war on Catholic Just War doctrine and still believes it to have been just? More to the point, what about cynics like me who reject the entire notion that terms like &quot;just&quot; and &quot;unjust&quot; can be meaningfully applied to war?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about those who do think the war was just, like <a href="http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com/2003_11_09_regnumcrucis_archive.html#106853368063630494" rel="nofollow">Dan Darling</a>, who has specifically predicated his support for the war on Catholic Just War doctrine and still believes it to have been just? More to the point, what about cynics like me who reject the entire notion that terms like &#8220;just&#8221; and &#8220;unjust&#8221; can be meaningfully applied to war?</p>
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