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	<title>Comments on: Meta-atheism, Death by Accident, and the Mysteries of Religious Experience</title>
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	<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/02/02/meta-atheism-death-by-accident-and-the-mysteries-of-religious-experience/</link>
	<description>The Sweet Release of Reason</description>
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		<title>By: links for 2009-12-10 &#171; Blarney Fellow</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/02/02/meta-atheism-death-by-accident-and-the-mysteries-of-religious-experience/#comment-4187</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2009-12-10 &#171; Blarney Fellow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 01:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=638#comment-4187</guid>
		<description>[...] Meta-atheism, Death by Accident, and the Mysteries of Religious Experience (tags: philosophy religion) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Meta-atheism, Death by Accident, and the Mysteries of Religious Experience (tags: philosophy religion) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sherol Chen</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/02/02/meta-atheism-death-by-accident-and-the-mysteries-of-religious-experience/#comment-4188</link>
		<dc:creator>Sherol Chen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 05:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=638#comment-4188</guid>
		<description>Is it just me, or does &quot;meta-atheism&quot; not actually mean anything?  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It sounds more like atheism as defined by meta-beliefs.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In any case, the prefix &quot;meta&quot; should probably not be used with words that it isn&#039;t typically used with, unless there&#039;s some major unpacking that follows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it just me, or does &#8220;meta-atheism&#8221; not actually mean anything?  </p>
<p>It sounds more like atheism as defined by meta-beliefs.</p>
<p>In any case, the prefix &#8220;meta&#8221; should probably not be used with words that it isn&#39;t typically used with, unless there&#39;s some major unpacking that follows.</p>
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		<title>By: mwdiers</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/02/02/meta-atheism-death-by-accident-and-the-mysteries-of-religious-experience/#comment-4189</link>
		<dc:creator>mwdiers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 04:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=638#comment-4189</guid>
		<description>Will,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You have unwittingly stumbled upon something that many Christians do not like to admit: that we do exactly what we don&#039;t want to do. We do what we hate doing. This is something that we recognize in ourselves, that no matter how long we are here in this life, we still do evil, no matter how much we wish not to.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This is what we call &quot;simul iustus et peccator&quot;: simultaneously a sinner and saint. Two forces working in one man simultaneously. Saint Paul described the phenomenon: &quot;The good that I wish to do, I do not do. The evil I wish not to do, that I do.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There IS a resolution to this tension. I do not wish to lapse into theology here, but suffice it to say, your understanding of the matter is very shallow at best. You may as well be describing what it is like to be black when you are white, or a women, when you are a man. You THINK you know, but you really cannot know, because you are not one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will,</p>
<p>You have unwittingly stumbled upon something that many Christians do not like to admit: that we do exactly what we don&#39;t want to do. We do what we hate doing. This is something that we recognize in ourselves, that no matter how long we are here in this life, we still do evil, no matter how much we wish not to.</p>
<p>This is what we call &#8220;simul iustus et peccator&#8221;: simultaneously a sinner and saint. Two forces working in one man simultaneously. Saint Paul described the phenomenon: &#8220;The good that I wish to do, I do not do. The evil I wish not to do, that I do.&#8221;</p>
<p>There IS a resolution to this tension. I do not wish to lapse into theology here, but suffice it to say, your understanding of the matter is very shallow at best. You may as well be describing what it is like to be black when you are white, or a women, when you are a man. You THINK you know, but you really cannot know, because you are not one.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/02/02/meta-atheism-death-by-accident-and-the-mysteries-of-religious-experience/#comment-4190</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 00:47:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=638#comment-4190</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re misunderstanding a pretty basic thought, which sort of debunks your entire statement here. I&#039;m not talking deep theology, I&#039;m taking basic cause/effect.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The mourning a believer does for a loved one who dies isn&#039;t because of a lack of belief that they&#039;re &quot;in a better place.&quot; It is because we are separated from them and will miss them between now and heaven/the new earth.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It isn&#039;t because we don&#039;t believe they&#039;re with God, or doubt that their pain is resolved. It is that we miss them. We&#039;re sad they&#039;re not with us. That a relationship has been (temporarily) lost. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Death is not a natural state. God didn&#039;t intend for us to die. So it is a wierd, uncomfortable, painful thing to go through. The comfort is in the belief that we&#039;ll live again in the ideal state, with Him, in the new earth.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m happy you&#039;ve put a lot of thought into this, but your argument that we&#039;re sad because we &quot;don&#039;t really believe our beliefs&quot; starts from a false premise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#39;re misunderstanding a pretty basic thought, which sort of debunks your entire statement here. I&#39;m not talking deep theology, I&#39;m taking basic cause/effect.</p>
<p>The mourning a believer does for a loved one who dies isn&#39;t because of a lack of belief that they&#39;re &#8220;in a better place.&#8221; It is because we are separated from them and will miss them between now and heaven/the new earth.</p>
<p>It isn&#39;t because we don&#39;t believe they&#39;re with God, or doubt that their pain is resolved. It is that we miss them. We&#39;re sad they&#39;re not with us. That a relationship has been (temporarily) lost. </p>
<p>Death is not a natural state. God didn&#39;t intend for us to die. So it is a wierd, uncomfortable, painful thing to go through. The comfort is in the belief that we&#39;ll live again in the ideal state, with Him, in the new earth.</p>
<p>I&#39;m happy you&#39;ve put a lot of thought into this, but your argument that we&#39;re sad because we &#8220;don&#39;t really believe our beliefs&#8221; starts from a false premise.</p>
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		<title>By: Sherol Chen</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/02/02/meta-atheism-death-by-accident-and-the-mysteries-of-religious-experience/#comment-4186</link>
		<dc:creator>Sherol Chen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 21:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=638#comment-4186</guid>
		<description>Is it just me, or does &quot;meta-atheism&quot; not actually mean anything?  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It sounds more like atheism as defined by meta-beliefs.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In any case, the prefix &quot;meta&quot; should probably not be used with words that it isn&#039;t typically used with, unless there&#039;s some major unpacking that follows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it just me, or does &#8220;meta-atheism&#8221; not actually mean anything?  </p>
<p>It sounds more like atheism as defined by meta-beliefs.</p>
<p>In any case, the prefix &#8220;meta&#8221; should probably not be used with words that it isn&#39;t typically used with, unless there&#39;s some major unpacking that follows.</p>
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		<title>By: mwdiers</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/02/02/meta-atheism-death-by-accident-and-the-mysteries-of-religious-experience/#comment-4185</link>
		<dc:creator>mwdiers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 20:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=638#comment-4185</guid>
		<description>Will,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You have unwittingly stumbled upon something that many Christians do not like to admit: that we do exactly what we don&#039;t want to do. We do what we hate doing. This is something that we recognize in ourselves, that no matter how long we are here in this life, we still do evil, no matter how much we wish not to.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This is what we call &quot;simul iustus et peccator&quot;: simultaneously a sinner and saint. Two forces working in one man simultaneously. Saint Paul described the phenomenon: &quot;The good that I wish to do, I do not do. The evil I wish not to do, that I do.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There IS a resolution to this tension. I do not wish to lapse into theology here, but suffice it to say, your understanding of the matter is very shallow at best. You may as well be describing what it is like to be black when you are white, or a women, when you are a man. You THINK you know, but you really cannot know, because you are not one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will,</p>
<p>You have unwittingly stumbled upon something that many Christians do not like to admit: that we do exactly what we don&#39;t want to do. We do what we hate doing. This is something that we recognize in ourselves, that no matter how long we are here in this life, we still do evil, no matter how much we wish not to.</p>
<p>This is what we call &#8220;simul iustus et peccator&#8221;: simultaneously a sinner and saint. Two forces working in one man simultaneously. Saint Paul described the phenomenon: &#8220;The good that I wish to do, I do not do. The evil I wish not to do, that I do.&#8221;</p>
<p>There IS a resolution to this tension. I do not wish to lapse into theology here, but suffice it to say, your understanding of the matter is very shallow at best. You may as well be describing what it is like to be black when you are white, or a women, when you are a man. You THINK you know, but you really cannot know, because you are not one.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/02/02/meta-atheism-death-by-accident-and-the-mysteries-of-religious-experience/#comment-4184</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:47:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=638#comment-4184</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re misunderstanding a pretty basic thought, which sort of debunks your entire statement here. I&#039;m not talking deep theology, I&#039;m taking basic cause/effect.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The mourning a believer does for a loved one who dies isn&#039;t because of a lack of belief that they&#039;re &quot;in a better place.&quot; It is because we are separated from them and will miss them between now and heaven/the new earth.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It isn&#039;t because we don&#039;t believe they&#039;re with God, or doubt that their pain is resolved. It is that we miss them. We&#039;re sad they&#039;re not with us. That a relationship has been (temporarily) lost. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Death is not a natural state. God didn&#039;t intend for us to die. So it is a wierd, uncomfortable, painful thing to go through. The comfort is in the belief that we&#039;ll live again in the ideal state, with Him, in the new earth.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m happy you&#039;ve put a lot of thought into this, but your argument that we&#039;re sad because we &quot;don&#039;t really believe our beliefs&quot; starts from a false premise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#39;re misunderstanding a pretty basic thought, which sort of debunks your entire statement here. I&#39;m not talking deep theology, I&#39;m taking basic cause/effect.</p>
<p>The mourning a believer does for a loved one who dies isn&#39;t because of a lack of belief that they&#39;re &#8220;in a better place.&#8221; It is because we are separated from them and will miss them between now and heaven/the new earth.</p>
<p>It isn&#39;t because we don&#39;t believe they&#39;re with God, or doubt that their pain is resolved. It is that we miss them. We&#39;re sad they&#39;re not with us. That a relationship has been (temporarily) lost. </p>
<p>Death is not a natural state. God didn&#39;t intend for us to die. So it is a wierd, uncomfortable, painful thing to go through. The comfort is in the belief that we&#39;ll live again in the ideal state, with Him, in the new earth.</p>
<p>I&#39;m happy you&#39;ve put a lot of thought into this, but your argument that we&#39;re sad because we &#8220;don&#39;t really believe our beliefs&#8221; starts from a false premise.</p>
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		<title>By: Christian Church Pastor</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/02/02/meta-atheism-death-by-accident-and-the-mysteries-of-religious-experience/#comment-4183</link>
		<dc:creator>Christian Church Pastor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 21:48:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=638#comment-4183</guid>
		<description>&quot;Believe&quot; is a word that means you accept the word of someone.  You believe the doctor, the bank, the teacher, the police and sometimes even the government.  These people have a lot of influence on the outcome of our health or future so we take faith in them seriously.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;When we believe God about our future it doesn&#039;t have to be a magical experience, but it should be real.  Do you believe that by dying on the cross, Jesus made a payment for the penalty of sins?  Does that make you a believer?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Believe&#8221; is a word that means you accept the word of someone.  You believe the doctor, the bank, the teacher, the police and sometimes even the government.  These people have a lot of influence on the outcome of our health or future so we take faith in them seriously.</p>
<p>When we believe God about our future it doesn&#39;t have to be a magical experience, but it should be real.  Do you believe that by dying on the cross, Jesus made a payment for the penalty of sins?  Does that make you a believer?</p>
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		<title>By: Tror religiösa verkligen på Gud? &#171; Nonicoclolasos</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/02/02/meta-atheism-death-by-accident-and-the-mysteries-of-religious-experience/#comment-4182</link>
		<dc:creator>Tror religiösa verkligen på Gud? &#171; Nonicoclolasos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 14:46:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=638#comment-4182</guid>
		<description>[...] är de flesta religiösa posörer? Tror de inte innerst inne? Är de i själva verket meta-ateister? Många tecken tyder på det (actions speak louder than [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] är de flesta religiösa posörer? Tror de inte innerst inne? Är de i själva verket meta-ateister? Många tecken tyder på det (actions speak louder than [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Carlos</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2005/02/02/meta-atheism-death-by-accident-and-the-mysteries-of-religious-experience/#comment-4181</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 22:52:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=638#comment-4181</guid>
		<description>Strange article, and stranger answers. It doesn&#039;t deal with the obvious answer, that is, ¿what do you mean by &quot;believe&quot;?. We believe a lot of things, some of them absolutely, some of them much less so. My belief in the existence of this computer, for example, is of a totally different quality that my beliefs in the nature of the universe, or my political beliefs, and still, you don&#039;t say that I don&#039;t really believe in them. Most christians probably don&#039;t believe in God in the absolute way that Will seems to assume. Their beliefs are mixed with doubt, hope, etc. and it&#039;s completely logical, after all.¿Wouldn&#039;t you have at least some small doubt about the existence of an invisible all-powerful entity?. But there are historical examples of people who believed absolutely in God; early Christians, for example, displayed that kind of belief, and martyrdom became so popular that the Pope decreed that only those who weren&#039;t seeking their own death were martyrs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Strange article, and stranger answers. It doesn&#8217;t deal with the obvious answer, that is, ¿what do you mean by &#8220;believe&#8221;?. We believe a lot of things, some of them absolutely, some of them much less so. My belief in the existence of this computer, for example, is of a totally different quality that my beliefs in the nature of the universe, or my political beliefs, and still, you don&#8217;t say that I don&#8217;t really believe in them. Most christians probably don&#8217;t believe in God in the absolute way that Will seems to assume. Their beliefs are mixed with doubt, hope, etc. and it&#8217;s completely logical, after all.¿Wouldn&#8217;t you have at least some small doubt about the existence of an invisible all-powerful entity?. But there are historical examples of people who believed absolutely in God; early Christians, for example, displayed that kind of belief, and martyrdom became so popular that the Pope decreed that only those who weren&#8217;t seeking their own death were martyrs.</p>
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