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	<title>Comments on: We Don&#039;t Need No Stinkin&#039; Baseball</title>
	<atom:link href="http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/12/16/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-baseball/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/12/16/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-baseball/</link>
	<description>The Sweet Release of Reason</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 20:28:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Robert Schwartz</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/12/16/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-baseball/#comment-2979</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Schwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Dec 2004 12:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=585#comment-2979</guid>
		<description>I live in Columbus OH. A few years ago the Powers That Be asked for a sales tax increase to fund a hockey arena so we could host our first major league franchise. We voted it down. They built the arena anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live in Columbus OH. A few years ago the Powers That Be asked for a sales tax increase to fund a hockey arena so we could host our first major league franchise. We voted it down. They built the arena anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Allen</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/12/16/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-baseball/#comment-2978</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2004 16:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=585#comment-2978</guid>
		<description>How much debt do the Giants carry due to building their own stadium?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How much debt do the Giants carry due to building their own stadium?</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/12/16/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-baseball/#comment-2977</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2004 15:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=585#comment-2977</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s pretty ironic that *San Francisco&#039;s* team is actually less competitive each year because its stadium was privately financed. I mean, out of all cities, San Francisco?! I think corporate welfare for sports teams is ridiculous, but I just find that interesting considering it&#039;s such a socialist city...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s pretty ironic that *San Francisco&#8217;s* team is actually less competitive each year because its stadium was privately financed. I mean, out of all cities, San Francisco?! I think corporate welfare for sports teams is ridiculous, but I just find that interesting considering it&#8217;s such a socialist city&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Will Allen</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/12/16/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-baseball/#comment-2976</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=585#comment-2976</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s my favorite sportswriter story. As Mickey Mantle lay dying, in need of a liver transplant, he attracted national attention, and then major national attention when a donor was found, and the transplant took place. The medical team held a fairly large press conference afterwards, large enough to require that they sat up on a dais to field questions from the assembled media, some from the straight news world, some from the sports news world. About midway through, after most of the expected questions were asked, a baseball writer was given the mike, looked up at the lead surgeon, and inquired, &quot;How is the donor doing?&quot;  The look on the surgeon&#039;s face was priceless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s my favorite sportswriter story. As Mickey Mantle lay dying, in need of a liver transplant, he attracted national attention, and then major national attention when a donor was found, and the transplant took place. The medical team held a fairly large press conference afterwards, large enough to require that they sat up on a dais to field questions from the assembled media, some from the straight news world, some from the sports news world. About midway through, after most of the expected questions were asked, a baseball writer was given the mike, looked up at the lead surgeon, and inquired, &#8220;How is the donor doing?&#8221;  The look on the surgeon&#8217;s face was priceless.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Henley</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/12/16/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-baseball/#comment-2975</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Henley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=585#comment-2975</guid>
		<description>Since Loverro started with the physical insults (&quot;pencil-neck geeks&quot;), I feel I should mention that he has a high queaky voice that is most unbecoming in a grown man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since Loverro started with the physical insults (&#8220;pencil-neck geeks&#8221;), I feel I should mention that he has a high queaky voice that is most unbecoming in a grown man.</p>
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		<title>By: asg</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/12/16/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-baseball/#comment-2974</link>
		<dc:creator>asg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=585#comment-2974</guid>
		<description>Hearing Loverro, a SPORTSWRITER for chrissakes, accuse anyone else of having little clue about economic benefits &quot;or anything else&quot; is pretty much the height of unintended irony.  Sportswriters are the most insular, useless people on the planet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hearing Loverro, a SPORTSWRITER for chrissakes, accuse anyone else of having little clue about economic benefits &#8220;or anything else&#8221; is pretty much the height of unintended irony.  Sportswriters are the most insular, useless people on the planet.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/12/16/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-baseball/#comment-2973</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=585#comment-2973</guid>
		<description>[UP

Do you know who&#039;s the worst with this shit?  &lt;a&gt;Fucking Michael Wilbon&lt;/a&gt;, that&#039;s who!  Anyone who disagrees with him is instantly dismissed:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Stadiums for the Browns and Indians, plus the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, revitalized Cleveland&#039;s center city financially, culturally and psychologically. All those restaurants and bars and nightspots don&#039;t employ people permanently? Please.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Or how about this quote from one &lt;a&gt;Thom Loverro&lt;/a&gt;?

&lt;blockquote&gt;The pencil-neck geeks who write economic reports and participate in panel discussions, such as the one held Monday by the CATO Institute, have no clue about that identity or the economic benefits — or much else for that matter.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

~

For a dude who understands both sports and economics, y&#039;all motherfuckers need to check out my man Skip Sauer, who blogs about sports and economics from South Carolina&#039;s upstate at www.thesportseconomist.com .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[UP</p>
<p>Do you know who's the worst with this shit?  <a>Fucking Michael Wilbon</a>, that&#8217;s who!  Anyone who disagrees with him is instantly dismissed:</p>
<blockquote><p>Stadiums for the Browns and Indians, plus the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, revitalized Cleveland&#8217;s center city financially, culturally and psychologically. All those restaurants and bars and nightspots don&#8217;t employ people permanently? Please.</p></blockquote>
<p>Or how about this quote from one <a>Thom Loverro</a>?</p>
<blockquote><p>The pencil-neck geeks who write economic reports and participate in panel discussions, such as the one held Monday by the CATO Institute, have no clue about that identity or the economic benefits — or much else for that matter.</p></blockquote>
<p>~</p>
<p>For a dude who understands both sports and economics, y&#8217;all motherfuckers need to check out my man Skip Sauer, who blogs about sports and economics from South Carolina&#8217;s upstate at <a href="http://www.thesportseconomist.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.thesportseconomist.com</a> .</p>
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		<title>By: Will Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/12/16/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-baseball/#comment-2972</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=585#comment-2972</guid>
		<description>Yes. You are missing something. The Mayor&#039;s office &quot;agreed&quot; to a deal. But the Mayor can&#039;t just unilaterally make deals. The Council contols the budget. If baseball had no deal with the Council, then it didn&#039;t really have a deal. &quot;The city&quot; didn&#039;t &quot;consent&quot; to anything until the representatives of the citizens on the City Council voted.

You&#039;ve got to be freaking kidding about the bad-faith negotiations thing. First, the Mayor is not empowered to just reach into our pockets, which is what his negotiated deal does. Second, as above, there is no deal until the council says so. Third, if an elected representative &quot;agrees&quot; to do something that is in principle immoral (&quot;I can assure you that the City of Washington will exterminate everyone whose last name begins with &#039;G&#039; in exchange for a baseball team&quot;) one is no obligation to go ahead with the agreement simply because someone (who doesn&#039;t have the authority to do so) has already negotiated a deal.

There is no bait and switch. Williams was trying to force this down the city&#039;s throat, in part by going to the press and touting his triumphant agreement with baseball, as if it was already a lock, in order to engender a sense of inevitability and acquiescence. The council simply did its job.

There is no possible way to be a libertarian and in favor of even the REVISED deal. See Henley, J., 2004.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes. You are missing something. The Mayor&#8217;s office &#8220;agreed&#8221; to a deal. But the Mayor can&#8217;t just unilaterally make deals. The Council contols the budget. If baseball had no deal with the Council, then it didn&#8217;t really have a deal. &#8220;The city&#8221; didn&#8217;t &#8220;consent&#8221; to anything until the representatives of the citizens on the City Council voted.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve got to be freaking kidding about the bad-faith negotiations thing. First, the Mayor is not empowered to just reach into our pockets, which is what his negotiated deal does. Second, as above, there is no deal until the council says so. Third, if an elected representative &#8220;agrees&#8221; to do something that is in principle immoral (&#8220;I can assure you that the City of Washington will exterminate everyone whose last name begins with &#8216;G&#8217; in exchange for a baseball team&#8221;) one is no obligation to go ahead with the agreement simply because someone (who doesn&#8217;t have the authority to do so) has already negotiated a deal.</p>
<p>There is no bait and switch. Williams was trying to force this down the city&#8217;s throat, in part by going to the press and touting his triumphant agreement with baseball, as if it was already a lock, in order to engender a sense of inevitability and acquiescence. The council simply did its job.</p>
<p>There is no possible way to be a libertarian and in favor of even the REVISED deal. See Henley, J., 2004.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Grossberg</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/12/16/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-baseball/#comment-2971</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Grossberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=585#comment-2971</guid>
		<description>OK, maybe I&#039;m missing something here ... but didn&#039;t DC agree to that bad deal, and then just renege on it?

Are you seriously approving of this kind of bait-and-switch?

I mean, you can call the original deal &quot;extortion&quot;, but the city did consent to it. Bad-faith negotiations are even more abhorrent to the libertarian in me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, maybe I&#8217;m missing something here &#8230; but didn&#8217;t DC agree to that bad deal, and then just renege on it?</p>
<p>Are you seriously approving of this kind of bait-and-switch?</p>
<p>I mean, you can call the original deal &#8220;extortion&#8221;, but the city did consent to it. Bad-faith negotiations are even more abhorrent to the libertarian in me.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Grossberg</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/12/16/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-baseball/#comment-2962</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Grossberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=585#comment-2962</guid>
		<description>OK, maybe I&#039;m missing something here ... but didn&#039;t DC agree to that bad deal, and then just renege on it?

Are you seriously approving of this kind of bait-and-switch?

I mean, you can call the original deal &quot;extortion&quot;, but the city did consent to it. Bad-faith negotiations are even more abhorrent to the libertarian in me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, maybe I&#8217;m missing something here &#8230; but didn&#8217;t DC agree to that bad deal, and then just renege on it?</p>
<p>Are you seriously approving of this kind of bait-and-switch?</p>
<p>I mean, you can call the original deal &#8220;extortion&#8221;, but the city did consent to it. Bad-faith negotiations are even more abhorrent to the libertarian in me.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/12/16/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-baseball/#comment-2963</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=585#comment-2963</guid>
		<description>Yes. You are missing something. The Mayor&#039;s office &quot;agreed&quot; to a deal. But the Mayor can&#039;t just unilaterally make deals. The Council contols the budget. If baseball had no deal with the Council, then it didn&#039;t really have a deal. &quot;The city&quot; didn&#039;t &quot;consent&quot; to anything until the representatives of the citizens on the City Council voted.

You&#039;ve got to be freaking kidding about the bad-faith negotiations thing. First, the Mayor is not empowered to just reach into our pockets, which is what his negotiated deal does. Second, as above, there is no deal until the council says so. Third, if an elected representative &quot;agrees&quot; to do something that is in principle immoral (&quot;I can assure you that the City of Washington will exterminate everyone whose last name begins with &#039;G&#039; in exchange for a baseball team&quot;) one is no obligation to go ahead with the agreement simply because someone (who doesn&#039;t have the authority to do so) has already negotiated a deal.

There is no bait and switch. Williams was trying to force this down the city&#039;s throat, in part by going to the press and touting his triumphant agreement with baseball, as if it was already a lock, in order to engender a sense of inevitability and acquiescence. The council simply did its job.

There is no possible way to be a libertarian and in favor of even the REVISED deal. See Henley, J., 2004.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes. You are missing something. The Mayor&#8217;s office &#8220;agreed&#8221; to a deal. But the Mayor can&#8217;t just unilaterally make deals. The Council contols the budget. If baseball had no deal with the Council, then it didn&#8217;t really have a deal. &#8220;The city&#8221; didn&#8217;t &#8220;consent&#8221; to anything until the representatives of the citizens on the City Council voted.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve got to be freaking kidding about the bad-faith negotiations thing. First, the Mayor is not empowered to just reach into our pockets, which is what his negotiated deal does. Second, as above, there is no deal until the council says so. Third, if an elected representative &#8220;agrees&#8221; to do something that is in principle immoral (&#8220;I can assure you that the City of Washington will exterminate everyone whose last name begins with &#8216;G&#8217; in exchange for a baseball team&#8221;) one is no obligation to go ahead with the agreement simply because someone (who doesn&#8217;t have the authority to do so) has already negotiated a deal.</p>
<p>There is no bait and switch. Williams was trying to force this down the city&#8217;s throat, in part by going to the press and touting his triumphant agreement with baseball, as if it was already a lock, in order to engender a sense of inevitability and acquiescence. The council simply did its job.</p>
<p>There is no possible way to be a libertarian and in favor of even the REVISED deal. See Henley, J., 2004.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/12/16/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-baseball/#comment-2964</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=585#comment-2964</guid>
		<description>[UP

Do you know who&#039;s the worst with this shit?  &lt;a&gt;Fucking Michael Wilbon&lt;/a&gt;, that&#039;s who!  Anyone who disagrees with him is instantly dismissed:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Stadiums for the Browns and Indians, plus the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, revitalized Cleveland&#039;s center city financially, culturally and psychologically. All those restaurants and bars and nightspots don&#039;t employ people permanently? Please.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Or how about this quote from one &lt;a&gt;Thom Loverro&lt;/a&gt;?

&lt;blockquote&gt;The pencil-neck geeks who write economic reports and participate in panel discussions, such as the one held Monday by the CATO Institute, have no clue about that identity or the economic benefits — or much else for that matter.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

~

For a dude who understands both sports and economics, y&#039;all motherfuckers need to check out my man Skip Sauer, who blogs about sports and economics from South Carolina&#039;s upstate at www.thesportseconomist.com .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[UP</p>
<p>Do you know who's the worst with this shit?  <a>Fucking Michael Wilbon</a>, that&#8217;s who!  Anyone who disagrees with him is instantly dismissed:</p>
<blockquote><p>Stadiums for the Browns and Indians, plus the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, revitalized Cleveland&#8217;s center city financially, culturally and psychologically. All those restaurants and bars and nightspots don&#8217;t employ people permanently? Please.</p></blockquote>
<p>Or how about this quote from one <a>Thom Loverro</a>?</p>
<blockquote><p>The pencil-neck geeks who write economic reports and participate in panel discussions, such as the one held Monday by the CATO Institute, have no clue about that identity or the economic benefits — or much else for that matter.</p></blockquote>
<p>~</p>
<p>For a dude who understands both sports and economics, y&#8217;all motherfuckers need to check out my man Skip Sauer, who blogs about sports and economics from South Carolina&#8217;s upstate at <a href="http://www.thesportseconomist.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.thesportseconomist.com</a> .</p>
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		<title>By: asg</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/12/16/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-baseball/#comment-2965</link>
		<dc:creator>asg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=585#comment-2965</guid>
		<description>Hearing Loverro, a SPORTSWRITER for chrissakes, accuse anyone else of having little clue about economic benefits &quot;or anything else&quot; is pretty much the height of unintended irony.  Sportswriters are the most insular, useless people on the planet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hearing Loverro, a SPORTSWRITER for chrissakes, accuse anyone else of having little clue about economic benefits &#8220;or anything else&#8221; is pretty much the height of unintended irony.  Sportswriters are the most insular, useless people on the planet.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Henley</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/12/16/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-baseball/#comment-2966</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Henley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=585#comment-2966</guid>
		<description>Since Loverro started with the physical insults (&quot;pencil-neck geeks&quot;), I feel I should mention that he has a high queaky voice that is most unbecoming in a grown man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since Loverro started with the physical insults (&#8220;pencil-neck geeks&#8221;), I feel I should mention that he has a high queaky voice that is most unbecoming in a grown man.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Allen</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/12/16/we-dont-need-no-stinkin-baseball/#comment-2967</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=585#comment-2967</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s my favorite sportswriter story. As Mickey Mantle lay dying, in need of a liver transplant, he attracted national attention, and then major national attention when a donor was found, and the transplant took place. The medical team held a fairly large press conference afterwards, large enough to require that they sat up on a dais to field questions from the assembled media, some from the straight news world, some from the sports news world. About midway through, after most of the expected questions were asked, a baseball writer was given the mike, looked up at the lead surgeon, and inquired, &quot;How is the donor doing?&quot;  The look on the surgeon&#039;s face was priceless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s my favorite sportswriter story. As Mickey Mantle lay dying, in need of a liver transplant, he attracted national attention, and then major national attention when a donor was found, and the transplant took place. The medical team held a fairly large press conference afterwards, large enough to require that they sat up on a dais to field questions from the assembled media, some from the straight news world, some from the sports news world. About midway through, after most of the expected questions were asked, a baseball writer was given the mike, looked up at the lead surgeon, and inquired, &#8220;How is the donor doing?&#8221;  The look on the surgeon&#8217;s face was priceless.</p>
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