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	<title>Comments on: Voting Dogs and Democratic Fairy Dust</title>
	<atom:link href="http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/10/26/voting-dogs-and-democratic-fairy-dust/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/10/26/voting-dogs-and-democratic-fairy-dust/</link>
	<description>The Sweet Release of Reason</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 20:28:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
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		<title>By: Hund</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/10/26/voting-dogs-and-democratic-fairy-dust/#comment-1525</link>
		<dc:creator>Hund</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 02:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=480#comment-1525</guid>
		<description>huge Democratic registration and GOTV drives have the semi-intended side-effect of canceling out a large number of Republican votes with illegal ballots</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>huge Democratic registration and GOTV drives have the semi-intended side-effect of canceling out a large number of Republican votes with illegal ballots</p>
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		<title>By: Hund</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/10/26/voting-dogs-and-democratic-fairy-dust/#comment-1524</link>
		<dc:creator>Hund</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=480#comment-1524</guid>
		<description>huge Democratic registration and GOTV drives have the semi-intended side-effect of canceling out a large number of Republican votes with illegal ballots</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>huge Democratic registration and GOTV drives have the semi-intended side-effect of canceling out a large number of Republican votes with illegal ballots</p>
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		<title>By: rosignol</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/10/26/voting-dogs-and-democratic-fairy-dust/#comment-1553</link>
		<dc:creator>rosignol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2005 04:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=480#comment-1553</guid>
		<description>Provisional ballots are for registered voters who end up at the wrong precinct. They get to vote -- provisionally -- and those ballots are closely checked against the voter registration rolls.


They&#039;re supposed to be, yeah. But that&#039;s not what has been happening in King County, Washington.


Republicans are against provisional balloting because they allow more registered voters to vote. Period.


Wrong. Republicans are against allowing people who do not have the right to vote cast a ballot. Provisional ballots are one of the many ways that happens.



&lt;a href=&quot;http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/241248_election19.asp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/241248_election19.asp&lt;/a&gt;

[...]

Irons and the GOP have hammered Sims over the elections department&#039;s meltdown in the 2004 general election. The mistakes included overlooking more than 100 absentee ballots until it was too late to count them, &lt;b&gt;tabulating hundreds of provisional ballots without the required verification of voter eligibility beforehand&lt;/b&gt;, failing to reconcile accounts of voters and ballots and losing track of voter signatures used to verify absentee votes. Hundreds of felons voted illegally, and votes were cast in the names of dead people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Provisional ballots are for registered voters who end up at the wrong precinct. They get to vote &#8212; provisionally &#8212; and those ballots are closely checked against the voter registration rolls.</p>
<p>They&#8217;re supposed to be, yeah. But that&#8217;s not what has been happening in King County, Washington.</p>
<p>Republicans are against provisional balloting because they allow more registered voters to vote. Period.</p>
<p>Wrong. Republicans are against allowing people who do not have the right to vote cast a ballot. Provisional ballots are one of the many ways that happens.</p>
<p><a href="http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/241248_election19.asp" rel="nofollow">http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/241248_election19.asp</a></p>
<p>[...]</p>
<p>Irons and the GOP have hammered Sims over the elections department&#8217;s meltdown in the 2004 general election. The mistakes included overlooking more than 100 absentee ballots until it was too late to count them, <b>tabulating hundreds of provisional ballots without the required verification of voter eligibility beforehand</b>, failing to reconcile accounts of voters and ballots and losing track of voter signatures used to verify absentee votes. Hundreds of felons voted illegally, and votes were cast in the names of dead people.</p>
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		<title>By: kate</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/10/26/voting-dogs-and-democratic-fairy-dust/#comment-1552</link>
		<dc:creator>kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2005 02:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=480#comment-1552</guid>
		<description>Voter registration cards could have a picture just like IDs do. the cost is not great. Certainly worth  it to help clean up elections. Precinct changes could be similar to year changes for autos- stickers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Voter registration cards could have a picture just like IDs do. the cost is not great. Certainly worth  it to help clean up elections. Precinct changes could be similar to year changes for autos- stickers.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Schwartz</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/10/26/voting-dogs-and-democratic-fairy-dust/#comment-1551</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Schwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=480#comment-1551</guid>
		<description>Bring back the 40 shilling freehold, literacy tests, one year residency requirements and a minimum age of 21. Abolish no excuse absentee ballots, and voting before election day. All absentee balots must be filled out and signed without the presence of a party worker.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bring back the 40 shilling freehold, literacy tests, one year residency requirements and a minimum age of 21. Abolish no excuse absentee ballots, and voting before election day. All absentee balots must be filled out and signed without the presence of a party worker.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/10/26/voting-dogs-and-democratic-fairy-dust/#comment-1550</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2004 02:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=480#comment-1550</guid>
		<description>Why is it that these registered voters find themselve in the wrong precinct? Do they do this on a regular basis? It seems to me that it is the resposibility of the voter to inquire which precinct they have go to in order to vote. Thus we would not have any reason to have a provisional vote. Not to be rude to anyone, but I believe that if a registered vote repeatedly finds themselves in the wrong precinct, there might be a reasonable reason for this, they can not read or they have a comprehension problem. Come on America, wake up and read your local newspaper!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is it that these registered voters find themselve in the wrong precinct? Do they do this on a regular basis? It seems to me that it is the resposibility of the voter to inquire which precinct they have go to in order to vote. Thus we would not have any reason to have a provisional vote. Not to be rude to anyone, but I believe that if a registered vote repeatedly finds themselves in the wrong precinct, there might be a reasonable reason for this, they can not read or they have a comprehension problem. Come on America, wake up and read your local newspaper!</p>
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		<title>By: Spiney Widgmo</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/10/26/voting-dogs-and-democratic-fairy-dust/#comment-1549</link>
		<dc:creator>Spiney Widgmo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=480#comment-1549</guid>
		<description>Disenfranchising a voter by denying then the chance to vote is worse because the voter knows he won&#039;t allowed to vote therefore he feels bad.

If Velma Thompson has her vote cancelled by a hamster voting, she doesn&#039;t know about it therefore she doesn&#039;t feel bad.

Since feeling are the most important thing in the world, better a thousand hamsters vote than one voter be denied the chance to cast a ballot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Disenfranchising a voter by denying then the chance to vote is worse because the voter knows he won&#8217;t allowed to vote therefore he feels bad.</p>
<p>If Velma Thompson has her vote cancelled by a hamster voting, she doesn&#8217;t know about it therefore she doesn&#8217;t feel bad.</p>
<p>Since feeling are the most important thing in the world, better a thousand hamsters vote than one voter be denied the chance to cast a ballot.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/10/26/voting-dogs-and-democratic-fairy-dust/#comment-1548</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=480#comment-1548</guid>
		<description>I want to emphasize to non-readers of my blog that I will be voting for the libertarian candidate, and that I hope Kerry wins the election. It is possible to make an observation or argument that is not motivated by one&#039;s immediate political hopes. Just sayin&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to emphasize to non-readers of my blog that I will be voting for the libertarian candidate, and that I hope Kerry wins the election. It is possible to make an observation or argument that is not motivated by one&#8217;s immediate political hopes. Just sayin&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/10/26/voting-dogs-and-democratic-fairy-dust/#comment-1547</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=480#comment-1547</guid>
		<description>Perhaps when Republicans can show millions of fraudulent votes to pair off with the millions of votes denied, then i could take this &quot;moral equivalence&quot; seriously. The law allows every citizen to register where they live, even students, Mexicans and blacks. And the law requires that they be allowed to vote, and that their vote be counted. Rich people have other ways of influencing policy besides the ballot, such as campaign donations, lobbying, bribery, etc. But poor people have one shot: Election Day. Anyone who knows any history knows whose votes get counted. Please stop pretending to be victims and just admit what you are doing: denying the ballot to citizens because you don&#039;t like who they&#039;ll vote for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps when Republicans can show millions of fraudulent votes to pair off with the millions of votes denied, then i could take this &#8220;moral equivalence&#8221; seriously. The law allows every citizen to register where they live, even students, Mexicans and blacks. And the law requires that they be allowed to vote, and that their vote be counted. Rich people have other ways of influencing policy besides the ballot, such as campaign donations, lobbying, bribery, etc. But poor people have one shot: Election Day. Anyone who knows any history knows whose votes get counted. Please stop pretending to be victims and just admit what you are doing: denying the ballot to citizens because you don&#8217;t like who they&#8217;ll vote for.</p>
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		<title>By: bitter mastermind</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/10/26/voting-dogs-and-democratic-fairy-dust/#comment-1546</link>
		<dc:creator>bitter mastermind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=480#comment-1546</guid>
		<description>Provisional voting. You can vote without registering first, and I think with no ID check.

Oh jeez...

Provisional ballots are for registered voters who end up at the wrong precinct.  They get to vote -- provisionally -- and those ballots are closely checked against the voter registration rolls.

Republicans are against provisional balloting because they allow more registered voters to vote. Period.

This isnt&#039;s not some grand ideological stance on their part -- if more potential voters were Republican, I assure you that they&#039;d be screaming from every rooftop for required voting, extended voting, weekend voting....

Here&#039;s the big difference:  if more potential voters were Republican, I&#039;d STILL be trying to get every potential voter to vote. I&#039;d rather not see Republicans elected, but for me the principle of democracy is genuinely more important.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Provisional voting. You can vote without registering first, and I think with no ID check.</p>
<p>Oh jeez&#8230;</p>
<p>Provisional ballots are for registered voters who end up at the wrong precinct.  They get to vote &#8212; provisionally &#8212; and those ballots are closely checked against the voter registration rolls.</p>
<p>Republicans are against provisional balloting because they allow more registered voters to vote. Period.</p>
<p>This isnt&#8217;s not some grand ideological stance on their part &#8212; if more potential voters were Republican, I assure you that they&#8217;d be screaming from every rooftop for required voting, extended voting, weekend voting&#8230;.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the big difference:  if more potential voters were Republican, I&#8217;d STILL be trying to get every potential voter to vote. I&#8217;d rather not see Republicans elected, but for me the principle of democracy is genuinely more important.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/10/26/voting-dogs-and-democratic-fairy-dust/#comment-1545</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=480#comment-1545</guid>
		<description>If I register a million dogs to vote, how much damage have I done to the system (besides the cost of registration)?

None.  There&#039;s no harm unless I actually cast votes.

Now let&#039;s suppose I actually want to cast as many fraudulent votes as possible.  A few assumptions:
1. It takes, say, ten minutes from entering a polling station, completing the voting process, driving to another polling station, and entering that station.
2. I don&#039;t want to risk showing up at the same polling station more than 4 times total, so I need to map out 18 different polling stations and make sure I have 4 names assigned at each.

With these assumptions I can vote 6 times an hour, and given a 12 hour voting window (and no breaks for food or restroom) I can cast 72 bad votes.

To get a thousand bad votes, I need to recruit more than 10 other people to this.

Now consider what it takes to disenfranchise.  Drop a stack of voter registrations in a garbage can.  Generate a list of people from a database with a few percent error.

The point: disenfranchisement is way easier, and thus more likely, and thus the bigger danger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I register a million dogs to vote, how much damage have I done to the system (besides the cost of registration)?</p>
<p>None.  There&#8217;s no harm unless I actually cast votes.</p>
<p>Now let&#8217;s suppose I actually want to cast as many fraudulent votes as possible.  A few assumptions:<br />
1. It takes, say, ten minutes from entering a polling station, completing the voting process, driving to another polling station, and entering that station.<br />
2. I don&#8217;t want to risk showing up at the same polling station more than 4 times total, so I need to map out 18 different polling stations and make sure I have 4 names assigned at each.</p>
<p>With these assumptions I can vote 6 times an hour, and given a 12 hour voting window (and no breaks for food or restroom) I can cast 72 bad votes.</p>
<p>To get a thousand bad votes, I need to recruit more than 10 other people to this.</p>
<p>Now consider what it takes to disenfranchise.  Drop a stack of voter registrations in a garbage can.  Generate a list of people from a database with a few percent error.</p>
<p>The point: disenfranchisement is way easier, and thus more likely, and thus the bigger danger.</p>
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		<title>By: o</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/10/26/voting-dogs-and-democratic-fairy-dust/#comment-1544</link>
		<dc:creator>o</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2004 10:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=480#comment-1544</guid>
		<description>thanks for the links, folks, I look forward to learning more. And as a resident of Chicago, I am certainly aware that Democrats are capable of committing vote fraud!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for the links, folks, I look forward to learning more. And as a resident of Chicago, I am certainly aware that Democrats are capable of committing vote fraud!</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Munn</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/10/26/voting-dogs-and-democratic-fairy-dust/#comment-1543</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Munn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=480#comment-1543</guid>
		<description>Jim B,

&quot;... not just refusing to accept the registrations of Democrats because that&#039;s not illegal or fraudulent ...&quot;

Really? I don&#039;t know election law, but I would have guessed that if you&#039;re set up to accept voter registrations, you have to accept all valid registrations (i.e., people who are really U.S. citizens, mentally competent, etc.) But you&#039;re saying that people accepting voter registrations are legally allowed to show favoritism. Do you know where I can find the relevant law to read it for myself?

As for the whole &quot;I don&#039;t want those people to vote who wouldn&#039;t recognize the truth if it hit them in the face with a 2x4&quot; type quotes: Gee, way to be nice and polite! :-) But seriously, the people *I* would prefer not to vote are the people who don&#039;t decide who to vote for until they&#039;re standing in the booth looking at the ballot. If they haven&#039;t made up their minds before arriving at the polling place, then effectively they&#039;re tossing a coin. I&#039;d rather have the direction of the country decided by people who know what they want, thanks. And yes, some of them may not agree with me, and will cast their vote for the opposite person than I will. But you know what? That&#039;s how democracy is *supposed* to work. They have their reasons for thinking that candidate A is better, just like I have my reasons for thinking that candidate B is better. But those people who can&#039;t decide between A and B, or who think &quot;What&#039;s the difference anyway?&quot; -- them I&#039;d rather see sit out the election than cast what&#039;s effectively a random vote.

And I do practice what I preach: I&#039;ve been living in Illinois until this year, but now I&#039;m in North Carolina. (I just got here in August). Since I haven&#039;t had time to learn about the local politicians yet, this election I&#039;m only voting for the national positions: President, Senate, House. State Senate, state governor, judges, sheriff -- I&#039;m casting a blank ballot for all those races. Next election I&#039;ll be more knowledgeable on local issues, and I&#039;ll be able to vote for them with a clear conscience. But until I know enough to choose, I&#039;ll leave the choice to those people who do know what&#039;s going on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim B,</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230; not just refusing to accept the registrations of Democrats because that&#8217;s not illegal or fraudulent &#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Really? I don&#8217;t know election law, but I would have guessed that if you&#8217;re set up to accept voter registrations, you have to accept all valid registrations (i.e., people who are really U.S. citizens, mentally competent, etc.) But you&#8217;re saying that people accepting voter registrations are legally allowed to show favoritism. Do you know where I can find the relevant law to read it for myself?</p>
<p>As for the whole &#8220;I don&#8217;t want those people to vote who wouldn&#8217;t recognize the truth if it hit them in the face with a 2&#215;4&#8243; type quotes: Gee, way to be nice and polite! <img src='http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  But seriously, the people *I* would prefer not to vote are the people who don&#8217;t decide who to vote for until they&#8217;re standing in the booth looking at the ballot. If they haven&#8217;t made up their minds before arriving at the polling place, then effectively they&#8217;re tossing a coin. I&#8217;d rather have the direction of the country decided by people who know what they want, thanks. And yes, some of them may not agree with me, and will cast their vote for the opposite person than I will. But you know what? That&#8217;s how democracy is *supposed* to work. They have their reasons for thinking that candidate A is better, just like I have my reasons for thinking that candidate B is better. But those people who can&#8217;t decide between A and B, or who think &#8220;What&#8217;s the difference anyway?&#8221; &#8212; them I&#8217;d rather see sit out the election than cast what&#8217;s effectively a random vote.</p>
<p>And I do practice what I preach: I&#8217;ve been living in Illinois until this year, but now I&#8217;m in North Carolina. (I just got here in August). Since I haven&#8217;t had time to learn about the local politicians yet, this election I&#8217;m only voting for the national positions: President, Senate, House. State Senate, state governor, judges, sheriff &#8212; I&#8217;m casting a blank ballot for all those races. Next election I&#8217;ll be more knowledgeable on local issues, and I&#8217;ll be able to vote for them with a clear conscience. But until I know enough to choose, I&#8217;ll leave the choice to those people who do know what&#8217;s going on.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/10/26/voting-dogs-and-democratic-fairy-dust/#comment-1542</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2004 09:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=480#comment-1542</guid>
		<description>o, here are some links, there are many more.
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jsonline.com/news/racine/sep04/262511.asp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.jsonline.com/news/racine/sep04/262511.asp&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.freep.com/news/mich/register23e_20040923.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.freep.com/news/mich/register23e_20040923.htm&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/summit/1096018375266600.xml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/summit/1096018375266600.xml&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/index.cfm?section_id=9&amp;screen=news&amp;news_id=36061&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/index.cfm?section_id=9&amp;screen;=news&amp;news;_id=36061&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>o, here are some links, there are many more.<br />
<a href="http://www.jsonline.com/news/racine/sep04/262511.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.jsonline.com/news/racine/sep04/262511.asp</a><br />
<a href="http://www.freep.com/news/mich/register23e_20040923.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.freep.com/news/mich/register23e_20040923.htm</a><br />
<a href="http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/summit/1096018375266600.xml" rel="nofollow">http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/summit/1096018375266600.xml</a><br />
<a href="http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/index.cfm?section_id=9&amp;screen=news&amp;news_id=36061" rel="nofollow">http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/index.cfm?section_id=9&#038;screen;=news&#038;news;_id=36061</a></p>
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		<title>By: cobataiwan</title>
		<link>http://willwilkinson.net/flybottle/2004/10/26/voting-dogs-and-democratic-fairy-dust/#comment-1541</link>
		<dc:creator>cobataiwan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2004 01:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.willwilkinson.net/flybottle/?p=480#comment-1541</guid>
		<description>Provisional voting. You can vote without registering first, and I think with no ID check.

This means you can go to vote in several precincts.

Dems like provisional voting, GOP wants to can it. I wonder why?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Provisional voting. You can vote without registering first, and I think with no ID check.</p>
<p>This means you can go to vote in several precincts.</p>
<p>Dems like provisional voting, GOP wants to can it. I wonder why?</p>
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